Author Topic: Fork seals and the tool  (Read 3527 times)

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Billy Thunder

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Fork seals and the tool
« on: February 15, 2012, 11:43:53 AM »
While researching the proceedure for doing the fork seals on this Honda CB400T, I've found that a special tool is required to insert the new seals. A quick search finds the tool ranges in price from $50 on up. I'm mechanically inclined, but I've never opened a set of forks... should I be considering this job on my own, or would it be wiser to have this done?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 09:38:21 AM by Billy Thunder »

MaximX

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »
  I am mechanicaly inclined also but have not done forks.  I think with something like this it would be good to have the guidence of someone who has done it before.  Spring loaded stuff can be tricky.

Mike

Rusty Bucket

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 07:13:45 PM »
 Forks are a toddle, generally - but there are enough differences so that absolute, unthinking confidence can be misplaced.  I went to show Terry Miller how to change the seals in his wife's super-budget SR185 Yamaha, only to find the damper rods welded - yes, by the factory - welded to the upper fork tube, and therefore without any removable fasteners.  That particular set of forks is actually held together by the normally-occuring  snap-ring above the seal:  you pull the boot, the snap-ring, and then slide-hammer (we checked, the factory tool is a slide hammer) the two halves of the fork apart.  This isn't really that different from most forks, when the bottom of the damper-rod is released from the slider by removing it's bolt above, or close to, the axle. Then the seal is tapped out by extending the fork, which means you are tapping on the seal with the interference between the lower tube bush and upper fork bush in the slider, usually.  Hopefully, this will NOT hopelessly bang-up the bushings if you are planning to re-use them - wise to check you haven't deformed or burred the bushings, when you have them in your hands.  This is the difference between changing the seals in your forks and rebuilding your forks, replacing the bushings in the slider and on the lower end of the tube needs to be done a couple of times in the lifetime of the bike, and it's a bit expensive compared to replacing a simple seal.  The tool to put the seal in is needed because the seal goes into the alloy slider almost last,  after the stanchion tube and the bushes, so a seal driver is hollow to fit over the fork tube, and sometimes split into two pieces, so that it can be used on an assembled bike after taking off the slider and changing the seal.  A scrap piece of correctly sized tube works fine: long enough to go over the collapsed assembly is nice, but a shoe on a short tube will let you tap it with a hammer, and that works too,  protect the tube with a wrap of plastic and find a steel or alloy tube (maybe ABS plastic woud work, too)  that fits the seal nicely, and drive it home.  It's not complicated, and you have one technical advantage over the professional motorcycle mechanic - lots of time to get the job done.  The manual's parts diagram will show the order of the parts, and the finding and/or fabricating the tool to drive the seal square is maybe the hardest part, and you would best know how hard you think that will be... usually easy.  Maybe the best tactic would be to find the seal driver before you ever start taking the fork apart:  you need a fairly solid piece of tube bigger on the id than the fork tube itself,  and smaller than the od of the seal you are knocking into the slider, and if you line the driver with some plastic, an old krazy karpet or something like that, you can usually get a nice sliding fit that has no chance at all of damaging the chrome surface of the fork tube, and should help tap the seal in straight, which is really what the whole operation is about.
  You have to ask yourself - how many people change out their own fork seals (lots) - and how many fancy storebought fork seal drivers have you seen? (few), especially when you think about how many variations of that id/od ratio the tool has to be able to do for different motorcycles, meaning the one tool becomes a bunch of tools.  Real careful people could no doubt tap in a fork seal with a hammer and punch with the washer from under the locking circlip as a load spreader... their risk of having to buy another set of seals would be increased, though. Also true you can flatten a seal, or distort it hopelessly, with a perfectly useful tool - even a pro tool - sometimes things just don't go as planned:  but your chances of success with a decent makeshift driver, and  care and patience, are good.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 08:33:46 PM by Rusty Bucket »

Dennis

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 02:21:42 PM »
I have changed many fork seals, and will be soon changing the ones on the GS650 monoshock project.  I have never seen forks like the SR described by Rusty.  All of the forks I have worked on fall into one of two types.  The first is simply a circlip on the top of the lower leg, which when removed (and the bolt on the bottom removed) allows the lower leg to be removed.  The old seal is pried out and a new one easily pushed in with the appriate sized socket as your driver.

Second is more difficult.  The tube and the lower leg have to be assembled and the seal slid down from above with a driver that has to be the right size to push in the seal AND slide over the tube.  The last one I did I used a piece of PVC tubing which, when in contact with the seal was taller than the tube (about 2 1/2 feet long).  Unfortunately, the PCV tube was too large in diameter, so I cut a long slot its entire length and used hose clamps to reduce it to the perfect diameter.  I worked like a charm.

DO NOT attempt to avoid using a seal driver on these types of forks by thinking you can carefully use a hammer and small driver which does not go around the tube and push on the seal evenly.  I tried this only once.  One slip and the seal is useless.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

MaximX

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 09:47:29 PM »
Here is how I cured having to change fork seals on my bike many years ago.. no more rocks or bugs hit the forks, ...no leaks yet after 23 years & 50,000km..from some of the descriptions of how much fun replacing seals are I am glad I did this just after the first replacement of the seals.

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Rusty Bucket

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 12:14:12 AM »
Here is how I cured having to change fork seals on my bike many years ago.. no more rocks or bugs hit the forks, ...no leaks yet after 23 years & 50,000km..from some of the descriptions of how much fun replacing seals are I am glad I did this just after the first replacement of the seals.

Totally agree with this - seals age and leak even with the bike static sometimes, air pressure or no - and yet gaiters help them resist this tendency.  In turning your seal from a semi-external part into an internal part, it's lifespan can be greatly increased.  The gaiters themselves end up showing their age due to UV and ozone, sometimes, but in my mind they are a sure-fire durability mod. 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:12:09 PM by Rusty Bucket »

Billy Thunder

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Re: Fork seals and the tool
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 09:39:49 AM »
 Yes, after looking though my old junker CB750's, Ive found one that seems to have good seals  and working forks - even after sitting around for who knows how long... It has gaiters. So with that in mind- Has anyone here put a set of forks from a (1978) CB750 onto the smaller frames like the '79 CB400T? I see a few bikes on youtube that this has been done to. I would gain a disc brake, a heavier front end and an easy mount for the bigger headlight.