Need Shady Tree Mechanic

[Must Ride]

Hi folks, I ride dual sport with Olaf and have been to a couple of meetings but have not formally joined up yet.

I know this board is for vintage bike related discussion but I don't know where else to go and given your extensive experience I'm hoping you'll be able to lend a fellow biker a hand.

I bought a 2013 CRF250L with 1500km on the ODO from Houston (trade in from Smithers Harley) in November 2017 and I need to figure out a strange problem as I'm a mechanical newb.  I've not ridden the bike yet as I've been getting it ready for multi day adventures and encountered a couple of issues (it test rode well around the streets of Houston).

There's a bit of background to this request but I'll save that for your suggested mechanic that may be able to help me.

The short version is, I was test riding it last month in prep for a multiday ride and I was doing ~80km up the Ospika hill near Tyner and the rear wheel locked up and the motor stopped.  I pulled the clutch in and coasted to the curb.  I checked the bike out and all seemed fine.  I started up again and hit the HWY and got up to 110km/hr riding to the end of Heyer Road no problem.  I turned around and headed home (Sullivan Cresc) and at Art Knapps the engine quit again.  So I coasted to the Bon Voyage Centre and tried to start the bike but there was not enough juice in the battery to start the motor, (battery new the previous fall).  So I called the wife and trailered it home.  It started fine when I got home.

I drained the oil and it was a molly colour and had shiny metal flakes in it  

The oil only had 13km on it.

I looked at the surface of the oil filter and I did not see anything in the paper pleates.

I checked the rad fluid and the level had not changed.

The magnetic oil plug has some black paste on it.

So something metal is wearing to alter the oil colour and provide the metal flakes, not sure why the locking up of the rear tire or the stopping of the motor though.

I changed the clutch plates last winter as I had inadvertently put car oil in the case (back of oil container did not have "energy efficient" in the oil symbol).

I also installed a used fuel pump before the test ride because the original one had small bubbles coming out of it which I noticed when I installed a larger opaque fuel tank.  I thought it may have been from when it fell off the bike and hit the cement garage floor.   

The used one also had bubbles but they were smaller.

Any help you can provide/suggest is greatly appreciated!

 

[stevecrout]

Sooooo  -  there a few things a fellow might do to narrow down the possibilities.   The first would be your statement about pulling in the clutch and rolling to the curb,  This would suggest the issue lies within the engine. The second thing would be the fact it seized (yes the "S" word) and this is likely the piston fit too tight and once she gets hot that's all she wrote.  I suggest the piston because you're not saying there are any heavy knocking sounds associated with a wrecked crankshaft and once it cools off it turns over again.

I'd also want to question why the bike was traded in after only 1500 miles. I wonder if there was an existing issue with the seizing and the person decided to get rid of the bike as soon as possible. I wonder if someone did a $100 rebuild then realized they screwed up and sent the bike rolling.

Either way you're in for a complete teardown and I'd suggest an alternate rider for the rest of the summer.

Bummer.

[Must Ride]

Hi Stevecrout, thanks so much for the quick reply!

The bike shifts fine for the little bit I rode it before the seizing problem, so yes I think what we did to the clutch is okay.  I watched/helped a much more experienced rider friend do the clutch plate re and re last fall for me.

The bike starts and runs fine in neutral and I when the rear tire is off the ground in 6th gear and motor running it spins fine.  I put the bike in 6th gear (motor off) and was able to walk it forward and backwards with some effort.

No heavy knocking as the motor sounds "normal" at idle and when rev'd up in neutral.

The bike was not traded in at 1500km as I understand it.

The story I was given (the ad said the bike was mint) was an older fellow in Smithers had the bike, rode it around town a bit and then traded it in as it was not to his liking.  Then the owner I bought it from purchased it for his young son who had a dirt bike but wanted a street legal bike when he found out you can ride on the road before you are 16 like a car.  He rode it for a bit but then turned 16 and his parents bought him a truck instead.  I got all this from his mother as the young rider was not around.

I checked over the bike and could tell it was ridden on gravel as there were many rock chips on the lower frame (60+ that I touched up when I got it home).  There were so many I wondered if the ODO had been turned back by Smither's Harley but I saw the tires and chain were original so discarded that thought.

Yes I've turned in my plates (only got $60 back after 2 weeks of a $160 three month insurance purchase), and looking for ideas (ie: used engine, sell it for cheap and cut my losses etc).

[Dennis]

I speculate a massive scratched up, broken ring tortured barrel and piston.   Ferrous vs non-ferrous debris?  The magnetic plug has found the expected ferrous metal for a non-crankshaft failure.

Query: Where would the aluminum shrapnel I predict be?

Peace & particles, Dennis

[stevecrout]

I wonder if a lot of the aluminum debris could be exhausted along with other gas? I've also seen a number of cases where the engine seizes but the corresponding damage is jammed back into the piston.  When you see the black streaks along the skirt it sometimes indicates re-placing of metal deposits.

The colour of the oil is interesting isn't it?  Sort of indicates water or some other non-lubricating substance and I wonder if that could be part or all of the reason for the seizing issue?

[Must Ride]

Perhaps the non-ferrous material has something to do with the replacement clutch job (ie: from the basket or....)?

Hopefully I'll know more once the oil analysis comes back.  I'm having Blackstone Labs do it:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/motorcycle/

So is there anyone in PG you would refer to help me repair the engine/problem?

[Dennis]

The oil analysis will be interesting, but there is no way you are going to avoid having to open up the top end.  The murky oil looks like coolant got in there.  The oil and coolant pass in close proximity at various parts, and I am still leaning towards it being a failure in the barrel.  Taking it off and looking is the best way to find out.  If damaged, it will be obvious.

Regarding repair shops/persons, I currently don't know any that I would trust.  That is why me a the Club members do our own work.  YouTube and uncle Google are great sources. 

If your a re a complete newbie, I say dive in.  The CRF250L is a single cylinder so that is a bonus.  It is light enough that you can wrestle it out of the frame without having to have a bunch of buddies over to help.

It is fuel injected and water cooled, but since neither of these systems on their own appear to have anything to do with your current problem, those would simply be disconnected and moved out of the way. 

Get savvy with eBay and other aftermarket parts suppliers.  A 2013 Honda will be easy to get parts for.  They will be inexpensive, and delivered to your door.   I don't want to be accused of slander, but I would avoid the Honda dealership for parts.... nuff said.

A metric wrench and socket set if you don't already have one.  Splurge on a torque wrench for when it comes time to re-assemble.

Don't be afraid.  This is a small, fairly simple and easy to understand engine.  You will be much more knowledgeable  and confident if you do the tear down, diagnosis, and repair yourself. 

Also, get a second motorcycle.  If you want to make sure you ride all season, its best to have a back up.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[Must Ride]

Hi Dennis thanks for the continued follow up and advice, very much appreciated!

I checked the coolant level and its still topped up so I'm not sure what created the grey coloured oil.

One friend suggested that possibly the engine leaned out (ie: bubbles I saw coming from the second in tank fuel pump), overheated causing the rear wheel to lock up.  Although when it happened the first time, I fired the bike up right after I coasted to the curb.  Then I went on the longer faster ride out to Heyer road and it didn't lock up again until I was at the Bon Voyage which was a longer test period.

I'll check the colour of the spark plug and do a bore scope for more intel.

I was afraid you would say that about local mechanics, I've heard Andrew is good at KTM but I need to find out his last name so I can contact him away from the shop to see if he does anything on his own or can recommend. 

Any thoughts about the grizzled Aussie (?) fellow at NR Motors, I know he works from home as well (he told me he was the mechanic for a bike race team in Alberta)?  Is he still there, I know he was not overly happy with the NR folks (neither was I when I took my DR350 there to have a carb needle installed a few years ago, yikes!).

Well when I say I'm a complete Newb, there is some background to that statement.  I've "dived" in many times before, farkling up my many bikes (I have 3 right now), deglazing the clutch plates in my CB500x when I got the clutch too hot trying to get through Chilcotin mud on the West Pavillion Rd and trying to hop over slide scree on the Texas Creek road.  I also tried to replace my CB500x clutch rings when I put that mis-lableled car oil in the crank 2 winters ago.  I got the bike back together but the clutch did not did-engage.  So I called my experienced buddy over, he repacked the rings still did not work, he took it apart again and then it worked, WT Frick?

I've tried to do my own work many times and its turned out ugly enough times that I've resigned myself to calling in expert help now. 

Here's another example, I wanted to check my valves on my '96 DR350, so I tried to take the spark plug out, I ended up over torqueing the plug and breaking it  so my nice buddy opened up the case and he put in the 385 bore kit for me.

Oh here's another one, I was installing an aftermarket skid plate on the CB500x and it needed a metal rod inserted into the rear part to secure it to the anchoring point.  It turns out the one supplied was a bit too large in diameter but I didn't clue in until I had used a hammer to drive the rod into position, then of course I could not remove it to lower the skid plate so I could change the oil. 

Oh ya then there's my DL650.  I installed a 12V plug and some lights via attaching to my battery.  Then I saw a wee bit of smoke, thought nothing of it as everything still worked.  I rode the bike to Kamloops in preparation for a 2 week ride through the States but then bike would not start so I got it to Kamloops Suzuki and it turns out wires in my harness had melted and they had to install a new harness (they were surprised the bike did not catch fire) and then a few weeks later the Stator went

Even when I repeat a job, I've forgotten what I've learned the first time and things go bad.

So despite my best efforts experience has shown I don't have that "what will happen if" perspective/gene that prevents bad things from happening when I touch mechanical things.  As such I resign myself to changing oil and taking my tires off to have new ones installed by Auto Magic........

I've searched Ebay for a used engine which may be simpler or even a used CB300R/F motor as its almost a direct plug n play and the extra torque would be nice.  But alas nothing came up.

As I said I have 3 bikes here (and one in Mexico), one for long distance touring (DL1000), one for distance ADV riding (CB500x) and then one for local dirt/road riding (suppose to be the CRF).

I'll update things when I find out more.