My Love/Hate relationship with motorcylces

[Dennis]

In anticipation of riding my BMW R65 for the Dawson City tour, Club members helped pull the tranny and replace the oil seal on the engine.  Check.

Went through the wiring to sort out gremlins.  Check

New battery. Check

Insurance. Check.

Overflowing fuel on one carburetor, tweaked and seems fixed. Check.

Test run on Friday Night.  An odd scraping sound coming from the transmission; lasted a second or so then went away.  Rode some more, sound return and goes away when shifted to another gear.  Seems okay but worried.   Venture to Pineview.  Grinding sound returns with a vengeance and I nurse the bike home.  Parked since.

The last thing I want to do is pull the transmission when I don't even know what has failed in it.  It obviously has to come out, but the Stolen Sportster is occupying my bike hoist while I do things on it.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

Friday night

[Sr.X]

And that?s the reason I now own a new motorcycle, don?t have any intentions of ever being without something with more age but having something new to get on and ride is kind of growing on me.
Later, Bob

[Hans]

so... when's shop night?

[fast1]

   Crappy! Odd that your Harley is more reliable than your Beemer. I suspect it is something that got missed on the last go-round, hopefully Guy can offer some insight? Don't give up yet! CHEERS.

[stevecrout]

I wonder if one of the pressure plate bolts has come loose or there is something caught in the plate that rubs on occasion? Since you didn't open the gear-box and the only remove and replace was the clutch assembly it's probably a good place to start. Lucky the unit splits so easily.

Just a thought.

Steve

[Dennis]

I wonder if one of the pressure plate bolts has come loose or there is something caught in the plate that rubs on occasion? Since you didn't open the gear-box and the only remove and replace was the clutch assembly it's probably a good place to start. Lucky the unit splits so easily.

Just a thought.

Steve

This is my hope Steve,... just a clutch issue.

However, a little diagnosis last night has me worried.   The bike is now stripped down to where I can just unbolt the tranny and pull it off, so I can't fire it up and show the brethren the way it was. 

My last observation before disassembling was that:  While in neutral with clutch lever in the engaged position (let out), engine not running, and pushing the bike from my driveway onto the lift, it made a grinding scraping sound (not nearly as intense as engine running, clutch released in neutral).

Query:  If the bike is being moved, the rear wheel via the drive shaft  is turning the transmission.  If the transmission is in neutral, nothing should be moving at the clutch.  Engine was not running.  Still a scraping sound.

Feed back appreciated. 
Tranny ready to be pulled and I would be grateful for some looky loos.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[Hans]

you had the entire final drive pulled apart as well, anything fouling the ujoint?

[Dennis]

you had the entire final drive pulled apart as well, anything fouling the ujoint?

Believe it or not, I did inspect the universal and it is not as smooth as it should be.  However, I am confident that is NOT my problem.  At most the universal would cause some vibration.  Also, the horrific grinding sound that occurs when the engine is running, but in neutral and clutch let out would not occur if it was the universal joint because, at that point its not moving.

Thanks for the analysis.  I recall you solving my electronic ignition problem with about as many clues as Poirot.

[stevecrout]

I suppose the answer will become painfully clear once the tranny is split and there should be an amount of filings accumulated in the housing. Which reminds me - if you drain the transmission oil, have a look for your filings there.  That could serve to eliminate an area without opening up the box.

In my limited experience with the boxer engines there's really only a couple of places you can get that sort of sound and couple this with the recent removal of the transmission and clutch so logic would dictate the issue is right there.  When the pressure plate is removed and replaced it's difficult to get it wrong as there's usually a clear marker for positioning and only 4 bolts to do up. Clearances are such that there is usually enough to allow for small differences but if the scraping noise is intermittent then something is out of round or off-center.  Again probably discovered quickly once the transmission is removed.

good luck!!

[Dennis]

Clutch looks fine with no debris in the bottom or obvious scoring marks.



36 years of a seal being tight takes a little convincing to open up.  I have been very careful to use solvent, heat, gentle rubber mallet, and time.  The wedges are plastic.   Still not opened up yet.



The grinding noise was intermittent when it first appeared.  Once I had the tranny out and turned the input and output shafts while in neutral, it was obviously not turning smoothly; could feel and hear it.  After bouncing the tranny around while trying to remove the output drive and the kick start lever, it went nice and smooth again. 

As Steve says,  I guess I will know when the case is open. .... which is hopefully just a rubber mallet bonk away.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[Sr.X]

If all else fails I know of a BMW 650 that is looking for a new home, only reason being dad is bringing home a new kid and there isn?t room for all the kids he currently has.

[Dennis]

The Good:

Transmission is open, but I have not actually pulled out the components.  I am hoping I persuade Mr. Hudson to have a look before I go further.  However, first visual inspection is that everything looks fine: no chunks of metal, no obvious scraped or worn parts.  I can turn the input and output shafts and shift through all gears.

The Bad:

Manual says I should have 0.8 litres of oil in the tranny.  There was hardly any.  It turns out the neutral light switch on the bottom was very loose.  Probably the only thing that kept it from falling out completely was the two wires attached to it would have kept it from continuing to back out.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[stevecrout]

I think I'd go back to your original comment about the scraping sound being intermittent. This would usually indicate an elliptical or warped surface contacting a another. If this is the case, what moving parts in the clutch or transmission fit that bill?
If a bearing has eaten it's liver then I could imagine the effect of rollers or balls that have worn to oval scraping against each other or their cages and since the transmission oil level was so low the noise would be projected a lot more than if it was coming through oil. Since there are no obvious signs of filings maybe the next place to look is your bearings? They may turn freely by hand but under a load they could be nasty.  This would account for the sound happening in neutral as one shaft would be rotating but not engaged to the other. 

[Dennis]

Guy Hudson came by and offered his observations/opinion.  The bearings rolled okay to the touch, but one of the sealed ones showed signs of extreme heat; the plastic/nylon (whatever the material is) was warped and dimpled.

Plan is to replace all bearings and seals.

Getting the shafts out was a real challenge since only the bearing for the input and output have through holes.



One of the bearings was badly stuck.  I eventually had to weld a tube to it to be able to pull it.



Now for parts ordering ....

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[Dennis]

Got my replacement bearings and seals.  I've cleaned up the cases nicely.

I am replacing all of the bearings, although I am now fairly confident that have identified the one that failed.  Curiously, it intermittently spins nicely and then binds.  The original problem was intermittent, and even playing with the transmission on the bench before I disassembled it was intermittent.

Some of the bearings were really hard to pull off.  This one I had to use some heating and cooling.



All the gears and shafts look really good.



Now for re-assembly.  There is a detailed You Tube video out there I need to review.  I may have to fabricate a tool for measuring and shimming endplay.

Peace & Grease, Dennis