Taking her for a walk...

[PeggySue]

Thanks, Mike.
A little encouragement goes a long way, and any comments which don't take the line of "just take it into the shop" are welcome.
It's my bike, dammit, and I'm gonna fix it.
And you know, with the beautiful weather, sun shining down on the lake and the yellow leaves...
it WAS a triumphant ride story. At least for a little while, which is okay by me; 40 minutes of GREAT ride after 6 weeks of wait-around was just what the doctor ordered!
Luckily I'm a tinkerer at heart, and so it's not really a chore to have another go-round with the bike.

No vacuum on the petcock, simply a 3-way valve. On, off, and reserve.

Anyway, it'll all pay off when I get to suggest solutions to some other poor sucker, then go out and ride my WORKING bike!

Glad someone is enjoying the ongoing saga ...

Cheers,
Peg

[Theo]

Hi Peg,
In my early years in the automotive trade, there was a saying ?90% of your carburetor problems are in the distributor?.  Now, I can?t make the case for 90% and I know your bike doesn?t have a distributor, but the point of that precept is that some ignition system faults can easily be interpreted as fuel system faults.
Where I?m going with this is that, having read the complete thread on your problem, I see no mention of checking your spark plug wires.  I did see that you have tried a replacement coil, but I don?t know whether it was fitted with integral wires (which would likely be metal wire core) with an integral resistor in the spark plug cap, or removable wires of the same type, or resistance core wires.  In any case, there is typically an element of resistance in the spark plug wire assembly that is prone to breakdown and can cause grief especially when you consider that your bike operates on a waste spark system.  That means both spark plugs are fired simultaneously and a spark plug wire fault can affect either or both cylinders.
So, I?ve blabbed on about this not knowing whether you have confirmed your wires or not.  If not, it?s worth the couple of minutes it takes to do it.  You should find (typically) a resistance in the order of 5 ? 10 k ohms per wire or resistor type spark plug cap.  An open or very high resistance (OL) indication on your ohm meter is a definite problem.
If you have tested and verified your spark plug wires already, let me know and I?ll go out in my garage and feel foolish by myself.  In any event, I?d be interested to know the results.
Theo.

[stevecrout]

Hi Theo -   to my way of thinking this is the best part about a site like this.  Everyone has experience and everyone has ideas.

None of it counts until you share and someone else learns from it.. 

[PeggySue]

Hey Theo,

We checked for spark just before testing the coil, and those numbers were weak, which meant installing a new coil... which came with attached leads.
They're strand wire (cable) in an insulated sheath, cut to length, and pop the old ends on (the old lead ends have a threaded 'spike' that drives into the end of the lead).

Is there a resistor in there that I don't know about? 
Maybe I should sand the contacts in there a little?

Spoke with a guy up here who seems to think it's my primary jet, and that it need an ultrasonic cleaning to really tidy it up...
I dunno about that... he runs a business, and will likely want to charge me... not that I'd mind if it sorted the low end out.

Pulled the carbs (yet again) tonight, and gave a very gentle reaming to the primary jet with a size-smaller drill bit, as had been suggested by one of the 'bike shop boys',
but after reinstalling them and fitting a new inline filter with new fuel line (clear, so I can see any junk in there), the same problem asserted itself after a short ride.

It's like there is a vapour-lock at low speed, especially just after stopping... and I get an air bubble in my line sometimes, too... it used to be in the filter, but I see it in the line, too, now that it's clear.

Bah.

Nice fall day to be out wrenching in the driveway, tho... see, I don't even have a garage to go feel foolish in! You're a step up, there.

Thanks for the tips,
Peg

[Hans]

lose the fuel filter.  Entirely.

[Dennis]

Your persistence inspires me.   Just when I am tempted to pull the engine from my drag bike and fit in something completely different, I read your thread.  Its gotta be simple, just gotta figure it out.

Peace & Grease, Dennis

[Theo]

Hi Peg,

So yes, I would expect to find a resistor in the "old ends" (spark plug caps) that you reused.  To support my thinking, I removed and tested one of the spark plug caps from my 1977 CB550.  It checked in at 5.0 kilohms (5000 ohms) using a digital multimeter.  If you have a multimeter or can borrow one (either digital or analogue will work), touch one test lead to that threaded 'spike' and the other one to the contact inside the cap where the spark plug would connect (obviously, you will have to test each of the two caps individually).  If the ohmmeter reads open circuit or OL or infinity or gives a high and unstable reading, the resistor cap is faulty and should be replaced.  Sanding the contacts or any other attempt to repair the resistor will not likely be successful - replacement of the cap is the only reliable fix since your coil has permanently attached leads.

I recently had one of these resistor caps (also a 5 kilohm resistor) fail on my 2007 Triumph, but since it is equipped with leads separate from the coil, I was able to replace it (I replaced both leads actually) with automotive type resistance leads.  It hasn't missed a beat since - about a month ago.  My Triumph's symptoms were a little different than you describe, but of course it's a different bike.

Disclaimer:  I do not mean to suggest that the spark plug resistor(s) ARE the problem with your motorcycle but, since they have been overlooked so far, I think they need to be tested and eliminated as a possible problem before you invest any more time in your carburetion and fuel system.

Look forward to hearing what you find.

Theo

[Billy Thunder]

I wouldn't get too hung up on chasing the air in the fuel line. I see that all the time in my 2 stroke bike motors. Remember - there is a resevoir in the carbs that feed the system.
 A simple test to know IF the bike is starving for fuel is too briefly apply the choke when the bike is acting up. If the motor smartens up when the choke is applied, you know it is starving for fuel.

[MaximX]

I agree with Billy, a bit of air in the line is of no consequence.  Your carbs should be very clean now that you have had them off so many times.  If the jet is clean and blown air goes through any associated passages that is all that matters to a degree.   You are dealing with a bike that ran fairly well until it was stopped...then a no start....somehow it would seem it is not getting gas to re-start it.  Persnickity thing, have you tried spanking it?

[PeggySue]

> Theo: I'll check out the cap resistors tomorrow (I've all sorts of electrical testers here) and post the digits.

> Hans: Not quite sure if I'm ready to lose the inline filter (still seeing a bit of cr4p accumulating in there and don't want to have to dig it outta my jets), but I have installed a different style filter, and used more hose to maintain an even downward angle.

> Billy T.: Will try the choke thing on Tuesday when it's supposed to stop pouring buckets out there (tho it seems I did try that at one point but didn't know what to watch for)...

> Dennis: Having seen some of your work, I'm sure you'll be fine!

> Max: We used to have a saying about getting spanked with a 2"x4"... we're almost there! ... but not quite.


Thanks for the ideas, on and on fellas... on and on.

Peg

[PeggySue]

Theo, I'm getting 4.6 (@ 200K) out of both lead ends, soooo.... hm.
Not 5.0, but passable.

[fast1]

   Any chance someone in the club has a c.d.i. you can try? Sounds like all other possibilities have been exhausted. Honda says check everything else then just change it. Had a Virago once with the same type of issue- started good cold then would just up and die. Eventually would start again but ran like crap till it cooled off. took the box apart (easy on this model) found a bunch of dust and cobwebs laying across solder points. Gently blew it out and reassembled. Cured. Early 750 Shadows had 2 i.c. igniters that failed to the point where they are no longer available. TRX 350 quads of 80's vintage had similar issues.   Luck and CHEERS.

[Theo]

Your test results sound fine to me as long as the readings are stable and consistent (ie. the values are not fluctuating or jumping around).
As I said earlier, this was just something that I felt had to be eliminated as a possible fault.  At this point I could only speculate, which prefer not to do in the interests of my own credibility.
Fast 1's mention of trying a replacement ignition module may have merit.  I suggest you confirm good electrical connections throughout before condemning the one you have.  Often enough, I have seen the replacement of an electrical component which has fixed a problem (either long term or short term), then discovered that replacing that part really only disturbed and re-established what had been a poor connection.  All that was really needed was to repair the connection, but the customer got to buy the unneeded part.
In going through my old CB550s, I am finding quite a number of green wire terminals.  Your bike is only 4 or 5 years newer than mine so I would guess it would be a worthwhile thing to investigate - especially if its done any sleeping outdoors.

Good luck, Peggy.

Theo

[Fritz]

Had to Push more than a Few bikes that I have had before.....



One of them I recall ran OK when Cold....then after it warmed up would start crappin' out

Couple Valves were Tight....

[Billy Thunder]

 The 'Choke Test' - bike starts to run poorly... you suspect your fuel supply is not adequate. Apply the choke briefly. Does the engine run well for a few seconds?
  (if there is not enogh fuel in the system to run the bike, you have reduced the amount of air in the mixture by choking... thereby getting the mixture rich enough to run the bike smoothly for a few seconds - confirming the lack of fuel.)