Author Topic: Open Letter to Shirley Bond  (Read 5661 times)

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Dennis

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Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« on: May 02, 2012, 03:18:21 PM »
I sent off the following email to Shirley Bond today.  She probably won't even read it.  If you want to chime in with your own thoughts, her email is shirley.bond.mla@leg.bc.ca

I recently cc?d you with a reply I wrote to one of the motorcycle forums I participate in.  They were announcing that Michigan state has just repealed their helmet law.  There are now 31 U.S. states which permit freedom of choice.

In British Columbia, we are going the other direction.  This is a serious concern for me.  While studying law between 1987 and 1990, my graduation thesis was on paternalism in law.  I know the pro and con arguments very well; in a society with collective benefits, the state can impose  infringements on choice.  The balancing act always has to be between the cost to the collective with the benefits of freedom of choice.  With regard to the BC Beannie and the proposed amendments to our helmet laws, I believe the legislature is going too far.

The demographics of motorcycling has changed significantly since I started riding in 1981.  Back then, it was still largely a young man?s game.  Getting a thrill was the goal.  Today?s riders, for many reasons are older and much more responsible.  The joy of motorcycling though is not limited to the ride.  There is an aesthetic which for many is almost as important.  Many of the new older riders are riding cruiser styled bikes, which are primarily for putting around town and looking cool.  The new older riders want to not only have a cool looking and sounding motorcycle, but they want to look the part.  Many are clamoring for a piece of their rebellious youth which they never lived and wished they had.  A black leather jacket, tough looking boots and a small helmet are part of the experience.   It is an important part of the experience.   I think this is being overlooked by the legislature.

I do not know what statistics were used in determining the need of the proposed changes.  The riders of sport bikes (which have been much in the news recently) all wear full face modern helmets.  It is a part of their aesthetic.   I believe the sport bike riders would make up the majority accident statistics.  I do not have access to the statistics, but anecdotally, my observations are that the riders who do choose periodically to wear a minimalist helmet are not involved in a significantly higher number of injuries or fatalities.

I have a collection of vintage motorcycles and a couple of caf? racers.  When I ride my vintage bikes, I like to wear a true vintage helmet and other old styled riding gear that matches.  This is part of the aesthetic and a huge part of my motorcycle hobby.  When I ride a modern motorcycle, or if I know I will be out doing some ?spirited riding? I will wear my full face helmet, and when I want to take a putt around town on my bobber, I want to wear a BC Beannie.  Anything else would be just geeky.

I am not alone in my concerns, and I strongly suspect the proposed law will be challenged as it was previously.  The legislature cannot delegate law making to a manufacturer.  That is contrary to the age old legal maxim of delegata potestas non potest delegari.  I fully intend to make myself available to any motorcycle groups planning to challenge this law.

I would be please do discuss this further if you think it would be fruitful.

Yours sincerely,

Dennis M. Smith

Barrister & Solicitor
251 George Street
Prince George BC  V2L 1R1
Phone (250) 563-8779
Fax (888) 897-2290



fast1

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 10:51:53 PM »
  Could not have said it better myself. May use large parts in my own letter. Sad day, lost my right to wear a beannie on my MOM'S birthday.  Maybe we should all join B.C.C.O.M.

madmac74

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 11:24:12 AM »
 well said Dennis , hopefully you'll get a reply....or maybye she'll be too busy Fingerpainting with pre-schoolers,  with a helmet on !! :)

MAC

Admin

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 07:56:09 AM »
Based on requests/reaction to members I have reopened the topic.
A quick answer to some statements - Ms Bond is not a "friend of mine" and I responded to a complaint by a fellow member.
Administrator

fast1

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 07:35:32 PM »
  Fair enough. Thanks for re-opening the thread. My comment was not intended as a slight against you Terry, sorry if it was misconstrued.  Got everybody typing though!!

Dennis

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2012, 10:32:24 PM »
Shane Simpson, the opposition Critic for ICBC got back to me and advised me that I was too late.  I thought the bill was going back to committe for further study.  Wrong.  It was passed before I started complaining.  Here is a link the actual Order in Council in pdf form.   

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/osmv/shareddocs/oic-motorcycle-helmet-regulation.pdf

If you were googling "BC motorcycle helmet laws" or some such similar search you may have come across the old regulation 366/87 which was the approved list of helmet makes and models.  That is NOT the current regulation.  That old regulation was the one that was ultimately ignored and allowed for the proliferation of the BC Beannie.  The predominant legal argument back then was delegatus non potest delegare which is succinctly described on Wikepedia as "one to whom power is delegated cannot himself further delegate that power"

This new regulation is even better.   The regulation unabashedly delegates the decision making to approve lawful helmets in British Columbia to (a) and (b) Snell which is a private US based foundation (c) United States Federal Saftey Standard which is US law and (d) United Nations Economic Commission for Europe.

It gets better.  Check out the phrase in each section "as amended from time to time, before or after the making of this regulation."  So our BC law is determined by past and future decisions of non British Columbian lawmakers.  In fact, a presently legal helmet in British Columbia according to this regulation, could become unlawful, and our lawmakers would not even know that they became  unlawful ... like magic. 

Pacis et pinguis, Dennis

Rusty Bucket

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 11:22:44 AM »
  The practical problem with delegating the standards for helmets is the tendency of those standards to creep as new materials and techniques become available, and for testers to think up new ways to challenge those new materials, while the human head and the impacts it sustains lag behind just where they have always been.  Years ago, Motorcyclist magazine undertook a round of independent helmet testing and proved, certainly to my satisfaction, that the Snell 2000 Certification was in fact such a difficult test to pass that the helmet that could do so was, in fact, less safe than many helmets which could not.  The Snell 2000 test included at that time a steel ball drop test, from some standard height I don't recall, which would then have the energy transferred measured on the inside of the helmet liner;  the problem being that the Snell test dropped that same steel ball TWICE in the same location.  In order to make a helmet shell strong enough to pass that test, the shells became so strong that they passed a dangerous amount of energy into the liner - where you are keeping your head.
  The high end of the helmet industry boycotted the magazine for years afterwards - no advertising dollars, which helmet makers spend a good deal on - after the magazine concluded that the less-demanding Department of Transportation (DOT) certification was, at that time, for the moment, the test that better indicated the use the helmet would get, and thus better protected the motorcyclist's head in that circumstance.  (It also took years of fussing for the Peter Snell foundation to admit that particular test demanded a shell so resilient it was a liability rather than an asset in an average motorcycle crash, though they eventually did)
  It came out just after I had purchased a pair, not one but two, new Shoei RF1000 full-faced Snell 2000 helmets, which I still have and use occasionally.  I had always been of the same inclination as many motorcyclists - to assume that the Snell testing, at that time the most demanding test there was, delivered the best, safest helmet.  This turned out not to be true.  And now the government wants to make a similar assumption, that the testing bodies represent a standard for safety, rather than a standard for testing, wherein the two interests may be divergent at times.  So there is some reason, IMHO, to be suspicious of both the standards themselves, and the drive to transfer the responsibility for those standards to entirely opaque interests in other countries.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 11:41:37 AM by Rusty Bucket »

fj1200

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 01:37:25 PM »
Helmet laws and the discussion of them have been around for as long as I can remember with nothing ever being resolved. It seems that our society wants to make anyone else but themselves, responsible for their actions and the outcome of those same actions. I read an article once that indicated that most deaths resulted from injuries other than head injuries. Remember the gun registration? There are far more gun owners out there than bikers, and look how long it took for that stupid law to get changed. And they are still arguing about it. Wear a "proper" looking helmet, and the cop will probably just say "license and registration please".

Hans

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 05:02:08 PM »
I'd be less worried about the new helmet regulation than the new seating regulations.  If your arse is not firmly planted in the seat, you are violating the seating regulations and your bike will be immediately impounded for a minimum of 7 days if you happen to run into an officer with an attitude.  Get up and stretch on the highway because your ass hurts, too bad.  Supposed to be some clrification coming with regards to standing on the pegs when going over bumpy or uneven ground, as is instructed in ICBC's Learn to Ride Smart manual.  Even if you fight the ticket in court and win, your bike is impounded immediately and you are still on the hook for the towing and storage costs.  There is an appeal process for the impoundement, they have 7 days after you start the appeal to respond to you, and you have to pay a fee to start the process, and if you even win, you still have to pay a fee to reclaim your vehicle. 

The intent of the new seating regulation is with regard to stunters and keeping young kids who can't reach the pegs off of bike, but once a law or regulation are in the books, it's enforceable as an officer sees fit.

I live with fear and danger everyday, but sometimes I leave her at home and go motorcycling.

Billy Thunder

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 05:26:27 PM »
 I heard a news bite on P.G. Rock Radio today - the final wrap up stated that helmets must be Snell, EUC or DOT approved. I guess that's how the PG RCMP has interperted the law for the news...

fast1

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 06:18:25 PM »
  As per Hans- this  would be my b-errr complaint with all the new traffic laws being implemented giving the officer the power to decide what your guilty of. If you and a friend are speeding together to beat the rain and you look like the guy his wife is fooling around with or not smart enough to say "yes sir" and argue in court he (or she) can call it street racing. Instant license suspension and impound. Motorcyclists rarely kill anyone but themselves in a crash--so stop saving me from myself already!! I went to court with a traffic cop who charged me with an illegal u- turn in a business district. Did some research and found out he was wrong. won my case but it made me wonder how many other people he wrongly accused of this offence just paid the fine. Power to the people- if you get a ticket fight it. It is worth the day off work to push back!! Complacency has become all to common. Would like to hear some of Copper lines thought s on this subject. 'Nuff said. Cheers.

Rusty Bucket

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Re: Open Letter to Shirley Bond
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 08:24:13 PM »
Agree that the intent of laws like this, to give cops tools to combat stunters or gangsters with, is largely irrelevant.  It doesn't matter what the intent of the laws are;  the cops, as Hans says, will apply them as they like - and they have already proven to my satisfaction that their discretion cannot be relied on to separate the intent of the law, which might have seemed fine in the abstract, with the indiscriminate application of that law regardless of the actual circumstances.  The impound law puts both the observation of, and punishment for, these new(ish) laws squarely in the hands of the cops - and, as I say, their discretion - the very last line of defense against the arbitrary imposition of impound laws - has already proven lacking.