Prince George Vintage Motorcycle Club
Technical Section => Complete Rebuilds => Topic started by: Dennis on December 01, 2013, 06:31:48 PM
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I know its not "vintage" but since I am a long standing club member and forum contributor, I figured many of you have seen my 883 Sportster on my lift for the last couple years with progress at a snails pace. This fall I had an epiphany moment when studying the wiring diagram, that I actually could figure it all out and probably even make it run. I have been going at it with some seriousness for a couple months now, and am hoping to also complete this bike for riding season in 2014. Not saying Father's Day ... just sometime in 2014.
Background: I bought the engine, wheels, forks, brakes, wiring, tank and fenders, even a windshield and saddle bags; everything but the frame in a package deal for $1500. Its all from a 2004 Sportster 883 which was the first year the engines were rubbermounted. Paughco introduced a rigid frame for the rubbermounted Sportster a few years ago, and I purchased one. I have been all over the web and have not seen a completed one yet. Hence the title to this thread; maybe I'll get some hits.
The first fab job was for the exhaust. The rubbermounted engine is allowed to vibrate fore and aft,, but not side to side. Because it moves, the exhaust has to be able to move with the engine. This rules out mounting the exhaust to the frame. The Paugcho rigid frame interferes with the stock exhaust mounting supports, so I had to cut, weld, cajole and otherwise modify it so that it would fit. I think I did this two winters ago.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/007_zpsb9c57508.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/007_zpsb9c57508.jpg.html)
Last winter I was inspired only long enough to do the rear brake. The brake on the stock 883 pushes the rod aft to the master cylinder. There was no way that was going to work on this bike, so I fabbed up a mount for the master cylinder up front, and a linkage to make the rod push forward instead of aft.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zpsecd93d2f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zpsecd93d2f.jpg.html)
The next two photos are of a brace I cut out. The brace interfered with where I want to mount the coil and the ignition switch; I want them in close to the stock position. My plan is to weld in a curved one after I have figured out where some of the other bits will get mounted.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpse3e8dbe3.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpse3e8dbe3.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/008_zpsb532b179.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/008_zpsb532b179.jpg.html)
The rear motor mount was not well thought out by Paughco. There is a small weldment with a threaded hole which I can only assume was supposed to be used for the rear mount, but it is not close enough or robust enough. I plan to cut it out and make my own. This is a photo of a male/female rod end I am trying to fit in. Jeff machined the spacer seen in the photo.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsa40e3599.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsa40e3599.jpg.html)
The oil tank was specified by Paughco for use with this frame and I bought it at the same time I bought the frame. I also bought their "mounting kit." The mounting kit is pretty because its chrome, but basically crap and the whole thing was pretty iffy. I cut off the mounts on the frame, ditched the chrome mounting kit, and am fabricating my own.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zpsd02865e7.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zpsd02865e7.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Finished the rear motormount. With welding in hard to reach places, and with the engine still in the frame, set up was paramount. I was only able to get one good safe access to do the weld. Its going to be tack welded for now, and finish welded after the engine is out. However, I also wanted to make sure that the weld wasn't so weak that it would get bent or knocked off when I disasseble.
URL=http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13007_zps5c14a8d2.jpg.html](http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13007_zps5c14a8d2.jpg)[/URL]
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13001_zpsc7848e00.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13001_zpsc7848e00.jpg.html)
I welded up the oil tank mounts.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13002_zps5409be4a.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13002_zps5409be4a.jpg.html)
Mounted the rear brake resevoir.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13003_zpsbac1c517.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13003_zpsbac1c517.jpg.html)
I tried to get the stock belt gaurd to fit, but no matter what I did, it just looked ugly. I had some leftover aluminum which is a perfect width. However, I have to get it to the right shape. Aluminum has a fair bit of spring back so I'm leaving this on until I have to take it off to get at something else.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13004_zpse2918ce2.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13004_zpse2918ce2.jpg.html)
Now I plan to spend some time on the Smithers XS650.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Lined up the holes for the gas tank mounts.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/22Dec13008_zpse6b2ca2c.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/22Dec13008_zpse6b2ca2c.jpg.html)
The profile of the gas tank is okay. However, up close the raised tank exposes a huge gaping cavern of a tank tunnel. Russel says the problem is the yellow paint; if I paint the tank dark, the cavern will not be so noticeable. I don't want to reposition the gas tank because I would have to move the petcock. That is more fabrication than I want to take on at this point.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/22Dec13004_zps90839cf7.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/22Dec13004_zps90839cf7.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/22Dec13003_zps04b9ccf6.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/22Dec13003_zps04b9ccf6.jpg.html)
Made my own battery cables. I think they turned out well.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/22Dec13005_zps08ec58ec.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/22Dec13005_zps08ec58ec.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/22Dec13006_zpsd2597ee1.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/22Dec13006_zpsd2597ee1.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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great look
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After a couple weekends off, I got back to work this weekend.
I cut the fender to shape, and welded on a tab for the front mount.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build14Dec14001_zpsf291109c.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build14Dec14001_zpsf291109c.jpg.html)
I then fabricated the struts. These are eventualy going to be chromed, so I spent most of the weekend filing them smooth. I'll still have to sand them down even smoother before going to the chrome platers.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build14Dec14002_zpsf01581ac.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build14Dec14002_zpsf01581ac.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build14Dec14003_zpsb0de7d9e.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build14Dec14003_zpsb0de7d9e.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build14Dec14004_zps4e0d54cc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build14Dec14004_zps4e0d54cc.jpg.html)
Nothing like a mock up to get inspired after a "couple weekends off."
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build14Dec14005_zps92e02319.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build14Dec14005_zps92e02319.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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As always I am astounded by the talent and skill sets shown by our members. Dennis's pictures just show some of the varied skills he has and the attention to detail.
Great work Dennis and the rest of the guys building and rebuilding bikes of all sorts.
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Spent most of Saturday making the mount for the ignition module. First one was just bent steel, and was not up to snuff, so I started over. One piece is welded to the frame and the other bolts to the ignition module.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build22Dec14001_zpse6315be2.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build22Dec14001_zpse6315be2.jpg.html)
The reg/rec was much easier.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build22Dec14002_zps3f680cec.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build22Dec14002_zps3f680cec.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/883build22Dec14003_zpscc864037.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/883build22Dec14003_zpscc864037.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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fahers day show and shine??? Looking good! CHEERS.
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fahers day show and shine??? Looking good! CHEERS.
Committing to the Father's Day Show 'n Shine has been a good motivator in the past, so I guess I'll toss down the gauntlet and say "you bet, this year's entrance will be the Rigid Paughco Rubbermount Sportster."
Geez ... now I feel pressured. I guess I won't take as many "weekends off."
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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You always turn out something cool Dennis, don't worry.
Merry Xmas
Parker & Twila
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I've misplaced my camera so I can't post any pictures right now.
I was planning on finishing the oil lines before I started in on the wiring. I discovered a ... problem, and am inviting 2 cents worth from my brethren.
The Sportster is a dry sump system. The usual set up for dry sump is: an oil line from the tank to the pump (the "feed"), a line from the pump to the tank (the "return") and a line from the tank to the atmosphere (the "vent").
My aftermarket chrome oil tank has a fitting for each of these three lines. So far so good. The tank has a big opening for filling it. However, there is no drain opening. The stock 2004 Sportster has a fourth oil line from the tank with a screw in/out plug nicely located under the bike for draining the oil tank.
There is no drain plug on the engine crankcase.
Query: suggestions?
The feed tube comes from the bottom of the tank (the return and vent go near the top). I could put a tee in the feed tube and route a short tube with a plug under the bike. That is sort of attractive, although I would always have to bleed it while filling to make sure there was no air which could interfere with the pump working.
Another idea I have is to just plumb it as is, and use an electric pump to suck out the oil from the tank through the filler opening. Kinda sucks though (pun intended).
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Though hardly expert on this field - you know some experts, of course - I am convinced by both of your solutions, for my part. Since the bike is filtering it's oil anyway, the cleaning of the tank would be more the occasional maintenance item, rather than every oil change, so merely draining the oil out with a pump or a syphon should be fine. If, on the other hand, you added a T fitting to the vertical (more-or-less) supply run to the engine, opening the drain branch wouldn't have any effect on the pump, or on the oil in the line between the pump and the T fitting. When the tank is refilled, air in the line between the tank and the T should rise to the top wth no problem, and gravity will naturally be pushing to supply the pressure pump. So, either solution seems entirely workable.
On a 'touring' chopper, maybe the onus is on the builder to make 'on-road' maintenance as easy and fuss-free as possible, and that might suggest that the T-fitting on the supply line might be the way to go - no special tools beyond a pan for the oil. Then again, on a touring chopper, maybe the focus might better be put on keeping things as simple and trouble-free as possible, and that might support a clean, one piece oil supply line to the engine, and a slightly more elaborate draining procedure, involving a syphon pump. Either way seems perfectly supportable to me.
I would T the supply line, I think, if it was me, maybe right at the tank. Guy might T the RETURN line, and divert the hot oil coming back to the tank into a pan - he is considering changing the transmission oil in his truck using a similar procedure...
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I would go with the supply line as well. With the return line, the bike would have to be running as the oil is being pumped out. Being as we are older and a bit more forgetful that doesn't seem like such a good idea.
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I would go with the supply line as well. With the return line, the bike would have to be running as the oil is being pumped out. Being as we are older and a bit more forgetful that doesn't seem like such a good idea.
Hey Fj1200, are you still working at the Harley shop? How about twisting some ears there for me?
I am leaning towards the tee in the feed line. I will check my old stock oil tank and see if it still has the stock Harley tube and plug. There is even a plastic do dad thing that clips the drain tube and plug to the frame so it is out of the way when not draining the tank.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Sorry, they laid me off in July. Said they needed someone full time and not part time. Guess I'm not in tune with the "Harley" attitude / lifestyle. I must admit to being amazed that anyone would pay 1000.00$ for a seat. So sorry can't help you.
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Dennis - not sure what kind of room you have there but could you attach a quick connect hydraulic coupler in place of the fourth line? Not sure if you can get a line small enough in there but maybe worth a look?
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"T" & a plug...should self-bleed the small amount of air as soon as tank has oil in it....not really enough volume of air to be concerned with.
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Last week I phoned a few recommended chrome platers. I guess winter is their busy time, because I was told it would take at least a couple of months. I can't wait that long. I phoned Atomic (they are in Mission) and they said a couple of weeks. They said they'd give a quote after looking at the parts.
I sent my two fender braces to them.
I just got off the phone with Atomic Plating. They estimate ... $130 ... each. OACH!!
I told him to go for it. This is my first foray into having a chrome shop chrome something for me. I guess I won't be chroming the big pannier holder/luggage rack.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Like the old saying goes-"chrome don't get you home"....but it sure does look pretty! For future reference the more grinding sanding and polishing you do before you send it off the cheaper it is, in anticipation of the finished project..CHEERS!
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The wiring is coming along nicely. The charging, starting, fuses, and ignition systems (include a bunch of sensors) are wired in. The headlight is wired in. Where these systems have handle bar controls or idiot lights, those are wired in too. This is actually a "before" shot I took last weekend.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/028_zpsyxhzfc1l.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/028_zpsyxhzfc1l.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/030_zpsg4jx2deq.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/030_zpsg4jx2deq.jpg.html)
I had to call Ted for help with the hi/low beam wiring. After a brief refresher course on Ohms Law, I confirmed I wired it correctly .
There will likely be quite a few of these "loops" (that's what I call them now), because I have removed the entire "anti-theft, don't lean too far, don't forget your signal light is on" safety module. These loops are like by-pass surgery.
All block connections are the stock Harley items. All inline connections were soldered with double walled shrink tube.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/029_zpsdu764ad9.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/029_zpsdu764ad9.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Lots done. I have working head light, tail light, signal lights, horn, and a whole schwack of idiot lights.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpsdtx6baqn.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpsdtx6baqn.jpg.html)
The complete signal light system is designed to easily unplug and remove for when it will be in chopper mode. In touring mode, the rear signal lights will be on the pannier rack ... yet to be fabricated. There is no flasher or self cancelling idiot circuit. The signals work the way Harleys did back in the 70's: your thumb and brain do the flashing. I figure this is the safest set up. I'll never ride down the rode forgetting my thumb is intermittently pressing a button.
The best part about getting the speedo wired in was I learned what the mileage was on my donor bike: 4803 Kms. I wonder if it ever had its first oil change.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Done as much as I can do for awhile.
Jeff is fabricating an extended axle and spacers (the spacers go outside the frame and will double as the thrust point for the belt adjustors) onto which I can weld steel rod for the pannier rack. When removing the pannier rack and going to chopper mode, the original axle and spacers will used.
I can't mount the tail light to the fender until I get my fender braces back from Atomic Plating; currently on route via Loomis.
I can't complete the rear brake switch until I get some new brake lines. The ones I originally measured for are too long. I had planned a different route for the brake lines when I first measured; now I have a more direct route. I need two because the rear brake switch is hydraulically operated and mounted on a T fitting. Where the two lines meet the T is where the switch will go. I just ordered from Excalibur some new lines which should put the T right where I want it. However, until I have it in place, I am not going to solder in the wires.
I'm taking a couple weekends off for a vacation.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Ooooo .... Shiny
Got these back from Atomic Plating. They are absolutely beautiful. I hope they remain as robust as they are shiny.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zpshucan7vj.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zpshucan7vj.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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lookin good denis
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Here's a photo of the extended axle and belt adjusters.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/146_zpswu3wxbcy.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/146_zpswu3wxbcy.jpg.html)
However, when I went to install the rear wheel, it was just ever so slightly too large in one spot. Off to Jeff's for some fine tuning.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/147_zpszojx2hjn.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/147_zpszojx2hjn.jpg.html)
I could not get 1/2 inch rod on Saturday. Princess Auto usually has it but it was all sold out. I went to all the usual places with no luck. I even snooped around fab shops where it looked like guys were working despite being closed. Met some helpful guys on the Hart, all keen to help with a motorcycle, and none having any 1/2 inch rod. I decided to just work on some mock up ideas with some 1/4 inch rod I had, to practice with my new rod bender. The final version will look similar to the photo below, but with some more bends.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/148_zpsuwvdthhj.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/148_zpsuwvdthhj.jpg.html)
I will make sure I get some 1/2 inch rod during this week. To be on schedule, I want to be able to start disassembling the bike for painting by the end of the month. That'll leave two and a half months before the Father's Day Show 'n Shine.
Peace & Pressure, Dennis
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Excellent work Dennis. Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Got some 1/2 inch rod. These are one piece, symmetrically bent with my Princess Auto bender. I welded them to the axel spacers.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zpsueoootdi.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zpsueoootdi.jpg.html)
Poor mock up with masking tape, and not where they'll probably end up. Just for inspiration.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpshq1eiagg.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpshq1eiagg.jpg.html)
My timeline goal now is to have the pannier mounts fabbed by Sunday evening. Once they're done, the bike can be disassembled for paint and finish welds needed on the frame (places where I could not reach with the bike assembled).
Peace & Grease
Dennis
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Re: paint and decals, I started another thread under Painting, Custom Decals.
http://www.princegeorgevintagemcclub.org/forum/index.php?board=10.0
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Not quite on schedule, but I got a lot done.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpstarlvj6z.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpstarlvj6z.jpg.html)
Need braces to complete the triangulation. Brad suggested mounts that would just go under the seat springs. I figure my fat ass will hold it in place. The braces were fabbed as symetrical as I could get, by bolting them together while I filed and grinded.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zps95cjp4ou.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zps95cjp4ou.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsyvmcanh4.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsyvmcanh4.jpg.html)
Panniers are a little closer this time. The brackets for the panniers and signal lights still need to be fabricated.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zpsksaxjafm.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zpsksaxjafm.jpg.html)
The stock signal lights will go where the divits are on the panniers ... that's the plan anyways.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/007_zpsiqp0yecr.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/007_zpsiqp0yecr.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Very nice Dennis. I think you are doing a awesome job in building this 8) bike. A lot of though, engineering, patience, great workmanship and a few beers, from what i can see is bring her to life. She will be sweet.
British Bulldog
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The belt guard was the last of the fabrication.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/020_zpsybne8nys.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/020_zpsybne8nys.jpg.html)
All fininished
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/021_zpslppd64ce.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/021_zpslppd64ce.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/022_zpsmzujy52x.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/022_zpsmzujy52x.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/023_zpskux4tpzn.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/023_zpskux4tpzn.jpg.html)
This gap is a bit ugly. The channel was original where the shock would have gone, so you can see how much wider the panniers are from stock. Oh, well. I am keeping to the theme of maximizing the donor bike parts, and the panniers came with the pile.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/024_zpsqpyb1z57.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/024_zpsqpyb1z57.jpg.html)
And with a plate ...
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/030_zpssjwoj4nj.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/030_zpssjwoj4nj.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I thought it might be wise to do a bit more mock up. This is with the windshield, heat guards and everything else on the right hand side all fitted into place.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/033_zpsxbyrs1rj.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/033_zpsxbyrs1rj.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/034_zpspacimnob.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/034_zpspacimnob.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/035_zpsxdmzaatt.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/035_zpsxdmzaatt.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/036_zpsxffuufiv.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/036_zpsxffuufiv.jpg.html)
Then I decided to make sure everything on the left side was finished as well, and discovered the kick stand still needs some tweeking. I need to fabricate something to keep it about an inch from the frame. Dang, and I just cleaned up all my fab mess and tools. Oh well, there's another day in the four day long weekend.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/038_zpsktknwkxj.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/038_zpsktknwkxj.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I got it disassembled. There is quite a bit of work needed on the frame now that the engine is out.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpsk3k9pr6y.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpsk3k9pr6y.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpsscde3smp.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpsscde3smp.jpg.html)
The pink bike in the background is my new (to me) 1992 XT350 Yamaha. I took it for quite the off road ride this afternoon. The Chang is running crappy, and I haven't taken the time to fart around with it, so the XT350 will be my ride for awhile.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zpsc6xaw3hg.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zpsc6xaw3hg.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Decals with Stuntman Fubar. Check.
Rack and small bits at RCJ Powder Coating. Check
Frame prepped for Bondo and paint. Not quite, another hour or so needed.
List of odd bits from Harley Davidson. List done, need to order.
Enthusiasm. Floods and ebbs depending on the weather and things I'd rather be doing. Need to keep momentum for the next phase; assembling.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Prepping a frame for painting is a ton of work. After filing and sanding all week interspersed by some Bondo and primer, the frame got a rattle can semi-gloss paint job while the sun was still shining today. By the time I took this picture, it was gloomy overcast and cold.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsqkmgudh5.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsqkmgudh5.jpg.html)
Peace & Paint, Dennis
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I got the rack and parts back from RCJ Powder Coating. Powder coating doesn't fill like Bondo, but it does smooth out a lot of blemishes. The rack looks great.
I took a long second look at my frame. I am not trying to hide the welds, I just wanted them smoothed a bit. I looked very closely in the bright sunshine this afternoon, and realized I still needed a few more coats of paint. I then considered that when the bike passes inspection (counting chickens before they're hatched) the VIN plate will be riveted to the frame, and future painting will need to be around that plate. I then considered that I blew $300 for two pieces of chrome plating. I recently sold and bike and have some cash. This is my biggest ($$$) build to date. After much humming and hawing, I said "screw it" and took the frame to RCJ Powder Coating.
My week of Bondoing, priming and sanding (including much of the weekend) will be blown away in a few minutes of sand blasting.
Stuntman says he's ready to put on my decals and wants my input.
ICBC says it takes about a week for the application for a VIN to be made, and when they send the VIN plate to the vehicle inspector. I plan to use Mark at Excalibur. The application requires the bike to be completed and include pictures. Can't do it yet. I have less than two months before the Father's Day Show 'n Shine, but at least I am not counting days or hours .... yet.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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The reason to use cheap rattle can paint for a frame for a first build is so any errors in the fabrication can be corrected and you won't cry about your paint job. I did not follow this sage advice; I powder coated my frame because I was sure I had "nailed it."
With the help of some Club members, the front end got put on the frame and the whole thing back in the rack. Almost immediately when it was together, Guy says "where's your fork stop."
Oops. Forgot to weld that in.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/015_zpsheffb6uu.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/015_zpsheffb6uu.jpg.html)
Lots of good suggestions on what to do, but I am going to take my time before deciding. The tank is far enough aft that even with the forks turned super sharp, nothing is going hit the tank.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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What about this idea.... http://www.pro-one.com/103413_Fork_Stop_Kit_p/103413.htm
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That looks like a very viable option.
Thanks. I guess I should look around on the web also. I can't be the first person who has done this.
I phoned the manufacturer directly (number on pdf instructions). Should work no problem. I may just have to shop around though.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
POST SCRIPT: I went by Xcaliber. Their supplier Drag Specialties caries it. I ordered one. I guess I will need to fill the beer fridge for another evening of help. Date to be announced. It will have to be a two phase job though because I don't think I'd trust myself to drill and tap the necessary holes since they will be so close to the steering stem. I'll need some professional help when the time comes.
See attached pdf of the instructions.
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Wiring is complete. Some photos of the prepping the wires for the weather guard connector for the rear brake light.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zpsnhyscqgh.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zpsnhyscqgh.jpg.html)
After the brake light was installed I went to test it. The light was super bright and the brake light didn't seem to work. I quickly realized that both the tail light and brake light were on ... without putting on the brake. I re-examined all my wiring realized the front hand brake switch was stuck "on". This made no sense. A quick look of the factory manual and there was a bold warning about putting the brake and throttle control on the handle bar, and how to avoid damaging the switch. Or course I read that after I broke the switch. A small plastic plunger was broken off. I disassembled it, used some Crazy Glu and put back together. Wasted most of a Saturday.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zpsturdwbft.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zpsturdwbft.jpg.html)
I love this Velcro tape. The entire wiring is wrapped with it, and then electrical tape over top. This way, I can cut into it anywhere if I need to, and there won't be tape goo all over the wire.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zps8ygqgjvr.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zps8ygqgjvr.jpg.html)
Oil lines. There are fancier ways of doing this, but I like the look of these. More industrial.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpsdah7vqso.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpsdah7vqso.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zps3orvjfxl.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zps3orvjfxl.jpg.html)
Coming along ....
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/007_zps0s6ena46.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/007_zps0s6ena46.jpg.html)
I went to bleed the brakes. No fluid was coming out.,, even right at the outlet of the master cylinder. Brad helped me take apart the master cylinder and re-assemble it with one part purposefully not put back in. The master cylinder would then push fluid, but I could not get the lines bled. I have since bought a rebuild kit but have not put it in yet. This is an interesting problem. The master cylinder did not work at all ... zero ... nothing. We removed what I can only describe as a second spring loaded piston (making it like every other master cylinder I have ever taken apart) and it appears it push fluid just fine. I will re-assemble the master cylinder with the new kit and try bleeding again.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/009_zpsrvhi4jol.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/009_zpsrvhi4jol.jpg.html)
Not working on it this weekend. I'm going camping.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Wayne offered to help with the rear brake so I took him up on it. With barely a half hour notice, he came by and spent the evening until we had it working. Despite the low mileage, it turns out that the rebuild kit was needed. We only did that after a couple hours of working with the defective one. Brad helped also.
Thanks again.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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IT RUNS.
Friday night I took the plunge. Up until that point, I had never tested the ignition to see if it actually would spark, and had never tested the starter motor to see if it would turn the engine over. A few blips with the plugs out but grounded confirmed both of the above. I hooked up my external gas tank and gave it a whirl. It started right up.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zpsok6hxmxu.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zpsok6hxmxu.jpg.html)
After a bit of running, I noticed some light brown powder forming on the oil tank near the rear exhaust. My first thought was somehow the new exhaust gasket was being blown slowly apart. Then I found a pile of it under the bike. Turns out its residue abrasive sand from the powdercoat job. There are two openings to the frame tubes and now that engine has vibrated a bit, its working its way out.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpshwcacfaq.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpshwcacfaq.jpg.html)
I couldn't resist some inspirational mock up.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpsbrmi80dn.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpsbrmi80dn.jpg.html)
And of course, the most important finishing touch.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zpsh4k03ksi.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zpsh4k03ksi.jpg.html)
The following are the photos I have to print and take to the insurers tomorrow to be sent of with my application for a VIN plate to be sent to the vehicle inspector. I am going to use Mark at Excalibur. HUB says it takes a week for him to get it. If Mark gets it next week, I will still have some days to get it approved and licensed before the Father's Day Show 'n Shine.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsvemql4vc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsvemql4vc.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zps983y6njm.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zps983y6njm.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/008_zpscdondqop.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/008_zpscdondqop.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/009_zps0iysfcpe.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/009_zps0iysfcpe.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/010_zpstcmjr4ow.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/010_zpstcmjr4ow.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/011_zpskmceufjk.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/011_zpskmceufjk.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Dennis - this should be an inspiration for anyone considering a bobber or modified bike. Well Done!
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Looking good Dennis.
Bob
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looks real sharp ! can't wait to have it on the rides
Mac 8)
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Two steps forward, one step back. Front off to fix the steering stop.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpsmkbw9qpx.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpsmkbw9qpx.jpg.html)
The plan was to use the fancy smancy steering stop kit I bought. The whole idea was to not damage the expensive powder coating. Turns out the powder coating got damaged by the steering stop nubs on the lower triple tree.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zps1bgg4gdc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zps1bgg4gdc.jpg.html)
The fancy smancy steering stop kit requires replacing the lower bearing race. With most neck tubes it is easy to get to the bearing race from above and hammer it out. This one is hour glassed shape. I tried every tool I had but could not get the bearing race out. I could have waited and gone and bought a specialty tool (more $$, ... more delay), and then taken the triple tree and fancy smancy kit to Jeff for all the requisite machining (more $$ ... more delay) and then I'd still have to fix the powder coat damage.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsokbzxxmg.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsokbzxxmg.jpg.html)
Since I should have welded in a steering stop in the first place, that's what I went for. Lauri helped.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/008_zpsjvp5xbak.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/008_zpsjvp5xbak.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/009_zpsj8rilop9.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/009_zpsj8rilop9.jpg.html)
With a little paint, no one but me and the members who follow this thread will notice. That's my hope anyway.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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That's the kind of fix I can relate to, make it work and spray can over the evidence. It will not take away from the "built it myself and riding it hard" factor. Is this the bike you are taking to Terrace?
Later, Bob
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In the future Dennis, run a bead of weld inside the bearing race, it will fall out. But this works as well clearly.
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First off, my instincts told me it would run. Well. Second, I think you have the most supportive and helpful Wife in the club. This goes a looonnnggg way when buiding a bike! At least now the stop is done right and you can sell the fancy kit on e-bay or kijiji. Mock-up pics look great. How is the paper chase going? CHEERS!
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THE PAPER CHASE
Getting the bike registered in time may end up being what prevents me from riding to the Show 'n Shine. Here's where I am at.
Monday, June 8th 10:00 a.m. I take my completed Application For BC Assigned Vehicle Identification Number, supporting documents (Manufacturers Certificate of Origin for the frame, Sales Receipt for pile of parts, etc). I could not get a good photo of the serial number on the frame with my camera no matter what lighting I used. The powder coating made the numbers ... soft. They can still be read visually but don't show up clear in the photo. Anticipating a problem, I did a Statutory Declaration wherein I swore that the frame is the frame described in the Manufacturer Certificate of Origin.
To expedite, all documents were faxed from Barton/Hub and originals sent by mail. Very positive first response .... looks like smooth sailing.
Tuesday a.m. I spoke to Mark at Xcalibur to confirm I don't need an appointment. As soon as he gets the VIN plate, they'll call me and I'll bring the bike in. We discuss last minute things to make sure. He was the one who told me I had better have the fork stop in or else it may not pass. Hence the above described work.
Thursday a.m. Barton/Hub relates message from ICBC. Very happy with my documents. No problem about the frame numbers because of my thorough Statutory Declaration. However, in my Application, I was to supply serial numbers for the frame, the engine and the transmission. On the Application I wrote "unit construction" instead of a serial number. ICBC needs confirmation of what the donor bike was, presumably to confirm that it was a unit construction. I guess ICBC does not know what a "Harley Sportster" is which is what the Sale Receipt refers to, and the photos are pretty clear that my bike is a Sportster.
They needed another Statutory Declaration to confirm what the donor bike was. I provided a long and very descriptive, and perhaps humorous Statutory Declaration describing why I was confident that the pile of parts I bought was all from a 2004 Sportster. If you're curious, I have attached a pdf version. I ducked out of work to delivery this to ICBC (via Barton/Hub) in the early afternoon.
Thursday, after work, I ran into Janet from Barton/Hub. She told me that right at the end of the day ICBC called her. They want to set up an inspection of the frame with a local ICBC representative. I guess my first Statutory Declaration is not longer "smooth sailing."
Friday a.m. (ie, this morning). Called ICBC. The fellow assigned to my file is not back until Monday. A little ingratiating with the receptionist and whining about 5 years of building for the Father's Day Show 'n Shine and I get the supervisors direct email. Working on that next.
A few emails and waiting all day. No inspector lined up. Fug.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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That's the kind of fix I can relate to, make it work and spray can over the evidence. It will not take away from the "built it myself and riding it hard" factor. Is this the bike you are taking to Terrace?
Later, Bob
That's my goal. In its "touring chopper" form it will have panniers and maybe even the windshield. I've never ridden more than a few kms with a windshield but I know many people swear by them. I think they're butt ugly, but I ride like an old lady and try to avoid rain. Bugs on my glasses and in my teeth I can deal with.
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Because part of the registration process is a visual confirmation of the numbers you may be able to toss it on the trailer and bring it to them at your convenience?
I did the registration of the 71 Commando during a trip home in December and the person in the insurance company office and I had this conversation when it came time to sight the numbers:
ICBC - "Just drive it by here so we can have a look and confirm the numbers"
Me - "I might need to have insurance - yes?"
ICBC -"Just get a temp permit"
Me - "Sure, but you have to agree to come for a ride around the block with me once I get it here"
ICBC - "Huh?" Then she looked outside and saw the snow falling on the already snow-covered roadways
ICBC - "Oh Ya - That's OK - just put it in the back of your truck".
Me - "Sorry, believe it or not, some of us in PG don't own a truck"
ICBC - "Well, are you going to be home at 5:30?" and to my surprise, the person came to the house, in a dress and heels no less, climbed over my old Jag, wiggled past the R100 leaning against the wall and stumbled to the back of the carport then used the cellphone to shine a light on the serial numbers and I had my confirmation!
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That's an insurance company that should be supported for going above and beyond.
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Hiding the damage.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpso5fjktlt.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpso5fjktlt.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zpscjwtlteb.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zpscjwtlteb.jpg.html)
The latest with ICBC is that the inspector is in Kelowna. Nice fellow who said my papers were in order, and that if I could get a better photo, he'd see about approving it without me having to wait until the next time he is in Prince George. After much farting around with a light and different angles, this is the best I got. I can see the numbers and letters.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpsfd8hozxc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpsfd8hozxc.jpg.html)
This afternoon will be determinative. ICBC says they send the VIN plates by courier. That means if the afternoon unfolds favourably, the VIN plate could be at Ecalibur this week.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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THE PAPER CHASE CONTINUES ...
The nice Kelowna inspector says there is another number. Its located on the lower right side, behind the oil pump outlet line. I was at work when I got that email. Home again and fug, my re-located master cylinder is in the way. I took if off for the photo but there is no way to get all of the digits without taking off my master cylinder, front exhaust and probably the oil line. I did what I could and sent him the best photo. I told him what I thought the other missing two digits were. He got back telling me what the missing three digits are.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/009_zpsvklepaqt.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/009_zpsvklepaqt.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/008_zpsmebqobbo.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/008_zpsmebqobbo.jpg.html)
I am just waiting for the final nod of approval before I re-assemble the master cylinder.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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STOLEN BIKE.
The donor 883 Sportster was stolen from someone in Alberta in 2005. The ICBC inspector has been very helpful and has no questions of my bona fides. The serial number was doctored. The first two letters "DU" never existed for Sportsters. The correct letters for a Sportster are "CJ." If you look at the photo below and enlarge it, you can see the one punch mark above the "D" which is not perfect. I never even considered it before. The bike was advertised as being cleared with the RCMP, and twice I checked with the RCMP to ensure it was not stolen. However, I always searched the wrong serial number.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/011_zpskmceufjk.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/011_zpskmceufjk.jpg.html)
If the bike had been ICBC insured, there would have been no problem because they diligently transfer ownership of stolen vehicles back to themselves. However, in Alberta the private insurers don't always do that so the engine actually could still be registered with the original owner.
As it stands, the inspector cannot give me the nod of approval, so there is no way the bike will be registered anytime soon.
I am confident of the law that applies in this situation. I am a bona fide purchaser for value. In a worse case scenario, I will get a court order saying that its mine. Before that I will try to chase down the legal owner and get the appropriate documentation. I hope the poor person from whom it was stolen got full compensation and will be cooperative.
This will be an interesting saga, which I will share with the brethren right here.
I guess the Smithers XS650 Bobber will be my Show 'n Shine bike and probably my daily rider for awhile... maybe a long while.
Peace & Police, Dennis
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It's the exact thing we always assume isn't going to be a problem when we swap unpapered bikes around - natch, it would be the Harley bought from a pawn shop... feel your discomfiture with the circumstances and result. No doubt there will be an eventual satisfactory resolution, but the interlude is certainly less fun than having it over with. Bad news - just bad all around news.
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Truly crappy news. My heart sank when I read it, really feel for you buddy. Hope you killed a six pack to dull the pain. Peace and perseverance.
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After a brief look at s. 354 of the Criminal Code (possession of stolen property), I thought it best to contact the RCMP. Nice constable lady came by my office and looked at all the documents, photos and contacted the ICBC investigator. File opened, but she said they aren't going to do anything further. She was able to quickly get the last phone numbers for JJ's New To You (from whom I bought it) and they are no longer in service. I mostly wanted to make sure I was not in jeopardy personally, but also to make sure they were not going to seize the bike from my garage. I was armed with case law where the RCMP have been held liable for damages for wrongfully seizing property subject to civil litigation where ownership is in issue. I did not even need to use it. She said they would seize it if was part of a murder investigation, but otherwise its mine. I guess no one was killed during the robbery.
Curiously, her CIPC search did not show it was stolen even with the correct serial numbers. After a certain period of time (she did not say how long) they wipe them off. I guess the ICBC investigator has better information.
She confirmed that the most important thing about having a file open is that I will be able to say in an anticipated court application that I did contact the RCMP and provided them with all the details.
Still waiting to find out who the legal owner is.
Peace & Police, Dennis
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In anticipation that the legal issues will be sorted out, I still need to complete the bike so that it will pass the inspection. Apparently you need reflectors with your license plate. This is made out of 1/4 inch plastic.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpsewdspshe.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpsewdspshe.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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LEGAL ISSUES, the short version of what occurred over the last month.
ICBC said can't assign me a VIN until I sort out the "legal" ownership issue. ICBC is able to provide me with the VIN of the stolen motorcycle. ICBC even able to tell me that the insurer who paid out a claim in Alberta was Axa-Pacific who have since been bought out by Intact Insurance.
RCMP. Interview, provide documents, advised they'd be doing nothing further, file closed. I assert possession of the parts is a civil matter and they leave the bike with me.
Intact Insurance: initially no idea what I was inquiring about. I eventually get a very helpful representative who takes charge of the file and chases down all of the information.
Chopperman (forum member, a.k.a. John from Quesnel) gives me information on the shyster seller. Information relayed to the RCMP ... bad move because file is re-opened for further investigation.
Intact Insurance: worried about ongoing RCMP investigation. After more communication with RCMP they confirm to Intact file closed (again). RCMP very helpful, particularly in communicating with Intact in what is (now) a civil matter.
ICBC kept in the loop the whole time, and various alternative proposals and plans were discussed. ICBC very helpful also.
All of the above was easily about 20 phone calls, at least as many emails, a few letters and a few faxes.
Today I received the following from Intact Insurance, "Please accept this letter as confirmation that Intact Insurance/AXA Pacific no longer has any financial interest in this vehicle and the individual (Dennis Smith) has full authority to register the vehicle in their name."
I think the light is at the end of the tunnel now. The Stolen Sportster is complete although not running great. If the new assigned VIN is sent to Xcaliber in the next few days, I may even have a month or so of summer riding on it.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Excellent news. If a few of the many, many steps were in the wrong direction, at least at this point it can all be viewed as part of one long and technically interesting journey - to a first ride. Cannot but be argued you would be best equipped to prevail under these circumstances, and now you are on the verge of doing so - again, excellent.
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Not running great tells me it's your turn to buy the beer..didn't want to work on any bikes till' mine was fixed but Zara is happily sucking up her 4th tank of fuel and laid 30 feet of rubber tonight. Call or p.m. me, happy to help! CHEERS.
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Russ you are correct . Way to stick with it Dennis... and Tech Night ???? ;D
MAC
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Not running great tells me it's your turn to buy the beer..didn't want to work on any bikes till' mine was fixed but Zara is happily sucking up her 4th tank of fuel and laid 30 feet of rubber tonight. Call or p.m. me, happy to help! CHEERS.
The Stolen Sportster has a complex computer diagnostic system which communicates between three major modules; the ICM (ignition attached to various sensors), the speedometer (historic information like the odometer), and the TSM (ridiculous turn signal, bank angle goofy thing). In my rewiring, I eliminated the TSM opting for manually activated turn signals.
The bike starts and idles like a dream. All lights and idiot lights work. A twist of throttle and it sputters and won't rev up. It is carbureted. After cleaning the carb and having no improvement, I thought I'd check the diagnostic codes to see if maybe the ICM was not advancing the spark or some other sensor was not working. I got an error code and a part number (the diagnostic system actually tells you this). I could not find a code on-line so this morning I took the codes to HD fearing I had a defective ICM or something serious. After some discussion with a mechanic Gerry, we determined that the malfunctioning part is the TCM; the ridiculous turn signal part that is completely eliminated from my wiring system. Geez, I didn't need a computer to tell me I threw that piece in the trash.
Gerry says if it starts and runs, and I am not getting any other codes, its not the ignition. Back to the carb I guess.
ICBC says the assigned VIN should be at Xcalibur shortly, so I guess I should work out the final bugs before taking it in.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Gotta love Fast One. He dropped by last night just as I was sitting down for dinner. Said, "don't worry, I'll get started checking out the bike ... don't rush your dinner."
When I came out he'd gone through the carb and confirmed it was clean. Still ran shitty. Would start but bog right off when the throttle was twisted. A little more analyzing and he figured out I had re-assembled the needle jet wrong. Put it in right and it revved up flawless. Its all assembled now and waiting for the phone call from Xcalibur to bring it in for the inspection.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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My appointment is August 7th at Xcalibur. Couldn't get in any sooner. I still haven't actually rode it some maybe tonight I'll try. Engine is running great but the clutch seems sticky.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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No photos 'cause my camera got broke but ... the Stolen Sportster is now registered and insured. I've been riding it for two days and trying to diagnose some vibration issues. It vibrates like hell at certain lower rpms. It also has a slipping/jumping out of gear (only momentarily and intermittently) issue.
The consensus on the WWW is it's just a Harley, get used to it. I'm not convinced because it is beautifully smooth at other rpms.
I've only done one short blast on the highway, and I think that is where this bike will really shine. It's nice to go highway speed and feel like you're not straining your engine. Very nice gear ratios for the highway.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Yay! Been waiting for this post, checked on it at Excalibur on Tues and heard about the last stumbling block. Mark said you did a good job. Next time I see you I'll take it for a rip and offer my opinion. Now you need to resurrect the iron head and compare old versus new! CHEERS!
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Yer always welcome to come out to my place Dennis . The road our here makes a perfect test track. complete with a full shop at the end of it , ;D
Well done ,and enjoy the ride
MAC
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Perseverance wins the day. Excellent to hear!
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Yer always welcome to come out to my place Dennis . The road our here makes a perfect test track. complete with a full shop at the end of it , ;D
Well done ,and enjoy the ride
MAC
I actually rode out on Friday afternoon. All your vehicles looked like they were there but the gate was closed. What's the protocol when the gate is closed? Shout? Just open and come in?
Peace & grease, Dennis
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Since the "complete rebuild" portion of this story is coming to a happy ending, I thought I'd take a shot into cyber-space to see if the previous owner could be located. During my two months of sorting out the legalities, I learned that it was stolen in Medicine Hat in 2005. I put up a long shot Kijiji Ad there today.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-street-cruisers-choppers/medicine-hat/was-your-bike-stolen-in-2005/1095854149?src=topAdSearch
Here's fishing.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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That's almost like reopening a can of worms for someone, especially if they had to pay a deductible. Maybe ignorance is bliss??
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I agree it would be interesting to contact the previous owner to find out some of the history of the bike. Can of worms or not.
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Keith Larrett took the Stolen Sportster for a spin and says its "fu**ed." He insisted on looking at the manual. On the stock sportster, both the swing arm and the engine are connected to the same big rubber bungs. He was pretty sure that my problem is that vibrating engine in the rubber mounts is not in sync with the rigid rear wheel, and this causes the drive belt to jump. To test his theory, he disconnected the rear hiem joint stabilizer that I made (photo from page one), to see if it was better or worse.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/8839Dec13001_zpsc7848e00.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/8839Dec13001_zpsc7848e00.jpg.html)
It didn't take more than a 100m on Tabor to determine that it was way worse with the stabilizer disconnected. I'm leaning towards Keith's theory.
I hit the WWW for rigid conversions. I spoke to John and Hardtailchoppers.com who manufacturers them. He has sold some to a few other Paughco frame builders who had similar problems. By similar, they had converted to chain drive and the chain slaps around way too much, no matter how properly they're adjusted.
http://hardtailchoppers.com/2004-up-sportster-solid-motor-mounts.html
His machinist expects a new batch to be ready for next week, so the plan is to touch bases then.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Hmm, bold move to consider wholesale rigid mounting - but I agree the engineering in the rubbermount with it's intersecting planes is...er, an intimidating playground to find oneself. It had not occurred to me to contrast the movement in the engine to the completely unmoving rear wheel - true enough, in hindsight, it seems like it could be a source of problems through the main connection they share - the drive. I would be interested to hear Paughco's reaction to the idea that the combination was fundamentally incompatible; if there was a single iteration of rubbermount /rigid wheel that had worked - the idea that it could NOT work would be quashed.
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I might be way off base but it seems that once the ability of the frame to adjust to forward pull from the engine is diminished (by removal of a swing-arm) and since the drive is now almost inelastic the result could be a jerking forward motion that comes off like an out of round vibration?
I wonder if a simple damper mechanism on the drive belt might absorb a lot of the bladder busting stuff without having to go completely solid mounting?
A simple diagram is attached.
Again, I might be off the mark but it seems there needs to be some give in the drive train at some point.
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I am no engineer but the diagram that Steve sent seems to make sense and should be able to adjust to the various engine conditions vs the rigid rear end.
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Some of the rubbermount Sportster's mounts - the front one, I think, at any rate, and maybe the main rear as well - are captured like a spring eye bushing, and traverse the frame side-to-side. This should resist deflection fore and aft, preventing the cyclical tension/release of the chain/belt varying tension with the engine's pulses. This would require the captured bushing to be fairly stiff, though, and if the rubber used in the rubbermount was both soft and thick, I suppose it could deflect enough fore and aft to create the exact cycling one wanted to avoid. If that was the case, just as in cars and trucks getting cyclical vibrations and deflections, substituting polyurethane for the soft rubber might be the engineering 'half-measure' that would find the happy ground between the problems inherent to the soft rubber, and those that would likely appear with the fitting of solid metal bushings and spacers.
There seem to be successful rubbermount hardtail choppers out there, ones whose riders would vouch for them, but it's not clear to me whether they are strutted swingarm models, weld-on hardtails, or aftermarket hardtail frames - I haven't heard anyone claim they have ridden a Paughco hardtail rubbermount Sportster for 3 years in every condition with nothing but glowing satisfaction... but maybe some would if given the chance. Whether they are stretched would be another question - there does seem to be a certain amount of tensioner talk.
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I think you are onto something. Vance and Hines makes these ...
http://xr1200.vanceandhines.com/race-kit/35-0260/
However, the hole through the middle is for the swingarm axel, which I don't have. The little "dimples" are just so they line up in the frame a certain way. I'm thinking a visit to Jeff may be in order. Start with just the rear in some hard but non metallic stuff.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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This is curious (see link).
They claim "Use our Rubber Mount Sportster Rear Mount Bushings when converting your late model, rubber mounted XL to hardtail. Sure, you can hardmount the rear, but why? Do it right, do it with these bushings. Save yourself a bunch of hassle. Retains stock rubber isolators and swingarm bolts."
I can see how it would mount, and I have the stock bolts to mount them, but I can't see how they'd solve the problem unless they just squish the rubber and make it stiffer.
http://shop.bareknucklechoppers.com/product/rubber-mount-sportster-rear-mount-bushings/
I sent them a detailed email question and left a phone message.
Peace and Grease, Dennis
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can you see evidence on the belt that it's been skipping. I would think that you would see rounding or scuffing on the leading edge of the belt teeth.
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Another 2 cents worth - I recently visited PG Plastics for the material needed to fabricate the plastic 'puck' used in the BMW drive train as a shock absorbing drive plate. Seems to me this sort of plastic, has the strength yet enough give under torque to do the job for you too.
It had the consistency of a hockey puck but you could tool it up nicely in a lathe.
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It felt to me like the belt was skipping or at least trying too when I rode it. The belt tension and alignment was perfect so I discounted it and felt like it was in the clutch. Rubber mount engines are new to me but I completely agree with Keith. Makes perfect sense. I think those aftermarket bits you posted a link to are a band-aid and a compromise. Liking Steves idea! CHEERS.
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I followed up Rusty's idea quite abit; polyurethane instead of rubber. While the aftermarket does make these for Big Twins, they apparently don't for the Sportster ... despite forum discussions all over the WWW suggesting otherwise. Numerous forum description about Drag Specialties' versions suggest they are stiffer than stock, not lots stiffer. Most report a change in vibration after switch to the DS versions.
I got an email response directly from Drag Specialties. They say they are the same. They say they're made of rubber. They should not be stiffer than stock rubber ones. However, a bunch of subjective impressions should count for something.
They're cheap. I am thinking of ordering a set. However the first (and also cheap) part would be the aluminum bushings I referred to above. As of this post, I still have not heard from the manufacturer on exactly how they are suppose to work, but I came across a forum build where some guy made his own to, "I limited the travel on the rear mounts slightly by taking up the air space between the motor mount and rubber bushing with some tubing and washers like this. ... Prior to the bushing...
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/BOND--007/Rubber%20Fist/rmount.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/BOND--007/media/Rubber%20Fist/rmount.jpg.html)
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/BOND--007/Rubber%20Fist/rmount3.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/BOND--007/media/Rubber%20Fist/rmount3.jpg.html)
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/BOND--007/Rubber%20Fist/rmount5.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/BOND--007/media/Rubber%20Fist/rmount5.jpg.html)
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii39/BOND--007/Rubber%20Fist/rmount6.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/BOND--007/media/Rubber%20Fist/rmount6.jpg.html)
Before I blow $375 USD plus shipping etc and commit to solid, I'd like to explore these options. The easiest first step are the aluminum bushings, which do what the builder in the above photos did. They would be a very easy install.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Since the problem would seem to be deflection between those two points - drive and driven belt pulleys - anything that would limit deflection in that plane (actually an arc around with the rear pulley at it's centre) would be incrementally helpful, with more compression/deflection-resistant material replacing rubber until the symptoms subside. Hopefully there would be a point the problem (which I have not seen) would be manageable before the mounts were entirely solid metal. Start wherever it is easiest to start. Jeff can cut the metal bushings, and any polyurethane pieces needed. I was also wondering if a rod-ended longitudinal brace , say from the engine cases under the drive sprocket, to a frame point as far forward as possible directly in front of the pulley (to allow the arm to be as long as possible to restrict angularity)might prevent the deflection. It would basically be a strap, and would no doubt transmit considerable vibration itself to the frame - but it might prevent deflection between the front and rear pulleys. If the heim joints were changed to eye bushings, vibration would be reduced, and deflection problems would begin again, but at least polyurethane bushings are FOR SURE available (and can be made) for an arm like that. The bosses would have to be so strong to support a true zero deflection brace, it's probably just an mental engineering exercise, and not worth pursuing.
I think a plan to substitute alloy sections into overly large, and overly soft, rubber bushings should be workable, but success might be relative and subjective - there might always be a point at which the 45 hp engine might overcome the 35 hp mounts. When Norton isolated their engine from the frame, they left the swingarm attached to the engine, and now we see why. Is the stock rubbermount swingarm attached directly to the engine cases? (I imagine it must be)
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Here is a diagram from a parts manual.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/swingarm%20diagram_zpsr8dwzuje.png) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/swingarm%20diagram_zpsr8dwzuje.png.html)
RE: "Is the stock rubbermount swingarm attached directly to the engine cases? (I imagine it must be)"
The stock swing arm attaches to the pivot shaft (#7 in parts manual) which runs between the two rubber isolators (#12). The swing arm is not rigidly mounted to the engine, but separated from the engine by the thickness of the rubber between the pivot shaft and the outside of the rubber isolators.
Rusty did not mention that he got to watch the pivot shaft move aft when I put the bike in gear and let out the clutch with the brake on. The latest consensus (Rusty, his neighbour Rene, and myself), is that in the stock set up, both the swing arm and the engine should move in the same direction, subject only to the small amount compression in the isolator. With the rear wheel being rigidly mounted, the engine pulls aft (you can see it), resulting in a looser belt. At certain rpm, the vibration causes the belt to vibrate up and down a lot. That rpm seems to correlate with the skipping. I think that under acceleration, the engine is being pulled backwards, and at the crucial rpm when the belt really starts vibrating up and down, its doing its jump.
Having said all of the above, the bushing inserts in the rubber isolators is going to be my first attempt.
The bike is actually very smooth. The frequently reported Harley phenomenon such as vibrating mirrors you can't see with, or foot pegs that make your feet go numb are non existent. I'm liking the rubber mounted engine, and plan to only stiffen the rear isolator as much as it takes to allow decent, daily use type acceleration. I don't plan to drag race this thing.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Rusty's comment makes my head hurt. Not sure about what the problem actually is, but this thought occurred to me. If the problem is the belt getting to loose and vibrating too much, would a tensioner like one used on serpentine belts work? Then it wouldn't matter what piece was moving in which direction. The belt would always be tensioned. Or did I miss the point completely?
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Re: tensioner solution.
The only reason I am not jumping on that option is I don't want to modify either the look of the belt drive as is, or have to fabricate/fit/weld on my beautiful powder coated frame. The builder whose photos I copied above had both a slide type tensioner on the bottom of his chain and a skate board roller on the top.
Re: Chain instead of belt.
No one has suggested that yet, but every hard tailed rubber mounted sportster out there on the WWW seems to have made the conversion to chain. Even Bare Knuckle Choppers show their bushings in a bike with chain drive. A chain drive would not skip as easily. However, I really want to try to keep to my theme of using as much of the donor bike as possible, and I want all of the smoothness of the belt and rubber mounts. We'll see.
I ordered the bushings this morning.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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not being an engineer...i can only say that if the engine can move around by flexing the rubber mounts and the axle is rigid...it seems logical to me that the only cure is to make the engine rigid or put in a sprung idler for the belt drive....it would be a new approach...maybe a patent in your future..