Prince George Vintage Motorcycle Club
Technical Section => Complete Rebuilds => Topic started by: Dennis on September 05, 2013, 02:12:28 PM
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On another posting, I showed what I picked up for free from a guy in Smithers. Since these XS650s are so popular right now with the chopper/bobber crowd, I thought this would be the time to build one. I have documented three builds thus far and I think they make for some good gearhead entertainment. They also expose me to delays, and keep me motivated.
So here goes with the Project Smithers XS650 Bobber. The goal will be a steet legal hardtailed bobber by Father's Day Show 'n Shine, 2014.
Another pic of what I am starting with.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/013_zps826d2767.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/013_zps826d2767.jpg.html)
Last night I started poking around with disassembling it. I investigated the charging and ignition systems first. The xs650 went through some changes over the years in both its charging system and ignition system. This one has a solid state reg/rec which would have been correct for the year (1980 as far as I can tell). The ignition system in 1980 was a "black box" capacitor discharge system that used a sensor on the stator, and a single coil with two spark plug leads. The old system was mechanical points located at the cam shaft, with two separate coils. On the bike was the single coil, but no black box.
Thought I'd take a look ...
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/1ee456bc-d131-4b98-9411-0660e9214f8c_zps37fb2828.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/1ee456bc-d131-4b98-9411-0660e9214f8c_zps37fb2828.jpg.html)
The black bulby thing on the stator is the sensor for the electronic ignition. Check out the top ... mechanical points.
I have no history on this bike. I cannot imagine what the previous owner was doing or thinking. I have no idea how the bike would end up with both the mechanical points and the electronic sensor, unless the head was replaced and the points were simply left in. Maybe the "black box" fried and he/she tried to retrofit points. Maybe this is why it ended up at the landfill.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looking forward to following this build, will keep my eyes open for any XS650 stuff for free out this way. Will be driving through P.G. in early October and then coming back from Kamloops Vernon area, if transport of parts is needed please let me know.
Later, Bob
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I am now the registered owner of this 1981 XS650.
I went through the usual steps of establishing prima facie legal ownership with ICBC in order for them to tell me who the current registered owner is. No record in BC but they did say their was a record in Alberta. I then did the Alberta search which confirms it is still actively registered in Alberta, but they do not say who the owner is.
At Hub International, I worked with Vicki. After a call to Head Office, the official word was I had to have it inspected first. When I first wrote to ICBC I explained how I wanted the bike registered before I spent time and money fixing it up. Vicki agreed and promised to make some more inquiries. She called me on Friday to say she had the green light to proceed. The bike is now officially registered as mine. No inspection necessary.
Some of the new members to the Club and/or this forum may not have read the previous posts about getting our old iron registered. The short version is that we have been assisted a great deal by Hub International and their staff. A few years ago, Cora-Lee from Hub International attended one of our meetings and described the whole process. This is a blatant plug for a local business who is very helpful and knowledgeable.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Between my shop being too full to work in, and spending time on the 883 Sportster, I have not been able to do much recently. However, on the weekend I pushed the bikes outside to make some room and got to work.
These are Ya Mama pipes from Pandemonium. A great little fab shop. The owner, Daniel does the fabrication and his girlfriend does all the paper work and business side of things. He answers his phone and emails personally.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zps79711d9e.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zps79711d9e.jpg.html)
I pulled off the rear wheel. No brake shoes or springs inside the brake drum. Should not be hard to find replacements.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/003_zps895a5756.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/003_zps895a5756.jpg.html)
Once everything was stripped, out came the Sawzall to work its magic.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zpsde1f16cb.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zpsde1f16cb.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looks like they copied Russ on the pipes. Course he has the cool heat shields. That beautiful job on the frame and you just cut it off! Just goes to prove one man's junk is another man's treasure. Literally. Can't wait to see what you do with it! CHEERS.
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Since I still have another XS650 relatively unmolested, and the Chopper Boyz all seem to be acquiring XS650s, I thought I would make a reusable frame jig for making my hardtail. When I did the XS650 Flattracker, I made a one-off frame jig that I had to cut up just to get the frame off the jig once the hardtail was fabbed up.
This one turned out great.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zps4782bb08.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zps4782bb08.jpg.html)
The jig for holding the axel plates is reusable. I built it first for the Drag Bike, and it was used on the XS650 Flattracker, and Elliott's (Young Gun on the Forum) hardtailed Honda 750.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zps7220716b.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zps7220716b.jpg.html)
Here is the reusable jig with the frame secured in it. With all those nuts, it was super easy to get the frame centered.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zps3ca8db22.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zps3ca8db22.jpg.html)
Crappy blurred photo. Not sure what's happening with my camera. The long rod from the steering neck is not for holding the frame; I used it as a gauge to help me center the frame.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zpsa5be7705.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zpsa5be7705.jpg.html)
I need to do an inventory of my tubing, and will need Jeff to make me some tube slugs before I can do much more. Gives me time to work on the 883 Sportster which is coming along just fine.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Spent most of the weekend cleaning up and organizing the shop. It was just too cluttered and too dusty so everything got sorted, vacuumed and wiped down. Unused stuff dumped or put in deep storage. Once I had some breathing room, out came the Sawzall to make short work of cutting the frame now that it is secure in the jig.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zps0c7947dc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zps0c7947dc.jpg.html)
Because I am splitting my time between this and the 883 Sportster, I decided to start a thread on that build.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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There was no way I was going to spend all this time chopping this bike without knowing the internal condition of the engine. A top end tear down was a minimum. I got the top end off and dis-assembled. I have not measured the barrels yet, but I am optimistic that I may get away with just new rings. The valves will need some lapping, the guides are good, and I will replace the seals.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/15Dec13004_zpse828a21b.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/15Dec13004_zpse828a21b.jpg.html)
I plan to have the barrels, head and rocker box cleaned with hot detergent at an engine shop. Its been recommened by my nephews and I promised them I'd give it a try. However, the rocker box had a fairly thick coating of spray bomb black enamel.
I wanted to get off as much as I could first. I used paint remover first and a finished scrub in the laundry sink.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/15Dec13002_zps650b4bec.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/15Dec13002_zps650b4bec.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Those machines clean awesome. Much better than what Jeff's ultrasonic cleaner did to my carbs that look worse than ever. CHEERS.
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Jeff wants me to try his new ultrasonic cleaning machine. Its tempting, but I promised to try these local engine guys first, who were highly recommended. I think they're called Northern Machine, and they're located close to my office, so it should just be a lunch hour jaunt to drop off the parts and chat them up.
Each time I do a major bike project, I glean a bunch of new information. This time it will be the pros and cons of getting engine parts cleaned. Long ago, I learned that it was cost effective to have a frame sand blasted by JC Powder Coating rather than spending the time to strip all the paint myself by hand.
Its not that I want to farm out everything I do. Its more like some jobs are just good bang for the buck to have someone else with special tools and equipment, which far exceed what I can justify owning or learning to use, do the work for me. Heck, why do you think I don't own a lathe and get Jeff to do all that for me.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Its been awhile since I made any progress. My wife is away for a few months, and I am single parenting my daughter who has activities (piano, Judo, skiing, etc.) just about every night. Between driving her around, cooking, cleaning and working full time ... I have not been able to spend much time in the shop. I have had a few good days though, and have tried to get at least an hour in the evenings.
First I bent and fitted the lower tubes.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/001_zpsc66639bb.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/001_zpsc66639bb.jpg.html)
And then the rest of 'em.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/002_zpsdae14f1f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/002_zpsdae14f1f.jpg.html)
A nice tool when working with tubing is a notcher. It uses a bi-metal hole saw and a big power drill.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/004_zps5a58aa59.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/004_zps5a58aa59.jpg.html)
Can't resist a mock up or two.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/005_zpse9de0516.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/005_zpse9de0516.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/006_zps85b11b83.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/006_zps85b11b83.jpg.html)
While I have some nice tools like my welder, tubing bender and notcher, I have always cheaped out on a parts washer. Jammie (one of the Chopper Boyz) has a nice washer that uses heated detergent. The engine top end was nicely cleaned at Northern Machine, but since then I have smoothed out the heads and lapped the valves, so everything needed another good cleaning. Off to Jamie's.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/007_zpsc51e0a8b.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/007_zpsc51e0a8b.jpg.html)
I am waiting for a few more parts before I tie in on assembling the engine. My plan is to use cast aluminum paint (same paint used for the rattle can rebuild on the GS650 monoshock project) for the bottom end, and just a thorough cleaning for the top. I'll post some photos when I assemble the engine. Until then,
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I am in a bit of a quandary over my Ya Mama pipes. I have a pair of tapered mufflers and would love the look Rusty Bucket got with his (see photo)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/RustysExhaust_zps96b7d6ad.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/RustysExhaust_zps96b7d6ad.jpg.html)
My Yamama pipes are parallel, but closer together than needed to go straight into a parallel pair of tapered mufflers.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/YaMamaExhaust_zps0590333f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/YaMamaExhaust_zps0590333f.jpg.html)
The options I am considering are:
1. have a completely new set made that are parallel but spaced wider apart, and have no turn out on the end. I have spoken to the builder by phone and email, and he is up for it. Just might be pricey though and I am a well known cheapskate when it comes to custom building. I may be able to spread these apart enough with only modifying the bracket that holds the pips together. I tried once when I first got them but it appears to be tweaking the pipe/head junction more than I am comfortable with;
2. cut the sides out of both tapered mufflers and re-weld them as one (like conjoined Siamese twins), making the openings the same distance apart as the Ya Mama pipes. This is an attractive idea, but the mufflers are chromed, so they would have to be painted in the end (I have painted chrome before);
3. fabricate (or have fabricated) a simple 2 into 1 exhaust collector and use only one muffler;
4. figure out some way of making flexible baffles to slide in past the turn out. This is attractive, and there are flexible baffles out there ... at least on the web. I sent an email to the web page for the maker of Powerbraidz but it came back undeliverable (see photo below). Besides that, they were over $100 in 2008; or
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/PowerBraidz_zps8de2f299.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/PowerBraidz_zps8de2f299.jpg.html)
5. I could simply slash cut off the turn out and install rigid baffles. They work, but not nearly as well as the tapered mufflers which I have used before and they actually cut down the noise considerably.
Your thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated. I have not even considered no mufflers or baffles. My days of straight pipes ended in the 1980s when I was young, dumb and full of cum.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I mocked up the bike with a spare engine I have.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14001_zps7980c6b5.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14001_zps7980c6b5.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14006_zps754c3bc0.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14006_zps754c3bc0.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14002_zpsb9f2e9b0.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14002_zpsb9f2e9b0.jpg.html)
I have decided that I don't like the seat and I don't like the pipes. The seat is too narrow and too short. It just does not look right. I have hit up Ebay for one a bit longer and wider.
The exhaust has to go also. The new Mikuni carbs will no doubt need tinkering. The Ya Mama pipes are so close to the carbs, that I can invision myself getting burned trying to tweek them.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14003_zpsd2373d78.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14003_zpsd2373d78.jpg.html)
Back to Ebay. I took the plunge and ordered a brand new set of chrome 2 into 2 with tapered mufflers. Made by Mac.
Peace and Grease, Dennis
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Dennis how did you get that Yamaha XS650 to mark its spot? My Beezers won't do that even with oil in them. Peace.
It looks like the bikes are coming together and looking awesome mate.
British Bulldog
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Dennis how did you get that Yamaha XS650 to mark its spot? My Beezers won't do that even with oil in them. Peace.
It looks like the bikes are coming together and looking awesome mate.
British Bulldog
This one leaks oil. It was on an outside shelf at Honest Roy's when I bought it a couple of years ago. I have done nothing to it since. I am surprised there is still oil in it to leak out. I am just using this engine for mock up while I finish off the actual Smithers engine. I never said Jap bikes don't leak. All my bikes leak after they've been ridden a while. My BMW is the worst offender I have.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I cannot use the stock top motor mount with my aftermarket tank. The tunnel is too narrow, so I knew I'd have to fabricate my own. I cut off all of the gusseting and brace on the top tube.
The stock xs650 top motor mount made up of six (6) separate pieces that are bolted together, and then bolted to the frame.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/Copyof03Mar14010_zps233565b7.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/Copyof03Mar14010_zps233565b7.jpg.html)
I wanted something much simpler. I needed some channel stock made just the right size so I took the rocker box and a folded piece of cardboard to Accurate Gauge (fab shop). They bent the channel stock piece. $10 but I paid him $20.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/Copyof03Mar14011_zps357f8ef9.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/Copyof03Mar14011_zps357f8ef9.jpg.html)
I use a lot of cardboard templates and masking tape when I'm cutting parts.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/Copyof03Mar14012_zps4cc33aa9.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/Copyof03Mar14012_zps4cc33aa9.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14013_zps9f0a7a81.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14013_zps9f0a7a81.jpg.html)
Welded in.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14017_zps6bab67c2.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14017_zps6bab67c2.jpg.html)
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Hi Dennis - is the motor mount designed to absorb vibration from a forward/backward motion or sideways? If sideways you may run into the same issue I've had that was resolved by adding small brace triangles to either side of the frame welded piece. Just something to bolster the strength a bit.
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Hi Dennis - is the motor mount designed to absorb vibration from a forward/backward motion or sideways? If sideways you may run into the same issue I've had that was resolved by adding small brace triangles to either side of the frame welded piece. Just something to bolster the strength a bit.
I believe the motor mostly vibrates up and down, and fore and aft. I believe this because the crank and pistons move in the traditional British 360 degree configuration with both pistons moving up and down together, but firing 180 degrees apart.
Steve your question is particularly salient if looking at my rubber mounted 883 project. On that one, the mounts allow the engine to vibrate fore and aft, but not side to side.
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Fore, aft, salient ? Is this bobber... for the water or the road???
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Fore, aft, salient ? Is this bobber... for the water or the road???
I guess I'm just a wordy guy. My nightstand has three of the Canada Reads novels ... and a stack of the The Horse magazines.
Peace & Grammar, Dennis
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Expensive lack of research.
I wanted the tires to have this groovy zig zaggy pattern. I wanted them matched so I bought different sizes of the Avon Safety Mileage MkII. ... 16 x5.0 and 19 x 3.5
This is the only picture at Canadasmotorcycle's online store.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/0000_Avon_SM_Mark_II_Rear_Tire_--_zpsa79d615e.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/0000_Avon_SM_Mark_II_Rear_Tire_--_zpsa79d615e.jpg.html)
This is what I got for a 16"
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14025_zps24f03dc5.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14025_zps24f03dc5.jpg.html)
These are the photos at Avon's website. I guess I should have done my research.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/Safety20Milage20MK11_zps82d2c100.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/Safety20Milage20MK11_zps82d2c100.jpg.html)
I mounted the rear just to see how it would look. The tread is cool and vintage. The front would have to be changed to something also vintage like an Avon Speedmaster.
I put the new Mac exhaust on for a mock up. I think the rear tire is too large a radius. Its much larger than the 130/90.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14026_zps5e1e7d26.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14026_zps5e1e7d26.jpg.html)
My options are to return both tires at the mere cost of shipping. I could keep the 16" and get an Avon Speedmaster and deal with the tires just looking too big (radius). The big tires raise the bike up which is good for riding but sucks for looks. I'm all about looks so this is a problem.
I could sell what I have to anyone interested at a discount and lick my wounds knowing a buddy got some cool tires cheap.
I have 19 x 3.5 which has the nice zig zaggy pattern. Both are for sale at a reasonable lower cost than I paid. I may send them back.
I can't fabricate my rear fender mount until I know the final diameter of the tire, so I'm going to have to make a decision pretty soon. I have all my engine stuff and some more fabbing to do, so I'll mull this over awhile.
Peace, Grease and Rubber, Dennis
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Hi Dennis - Let me know by email how much you want for the 19" tire and I'll probably take it from you.
stevecrout@hotmail.com
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Would the 130/90-16" have the same pattern as the 16x5.0"? Meaning, only the 18" rears would have had the pattern you wanted to match the 19" front? There really is little difference between a 130 and a 5" width - but the aspect ratio does make an observable difference in the height, just as you say, that looks like a tall tire.
My bobber's Avon front tire - seen elsewhere - is the same diameter (19") but is a 3.25 - 19", so, judging by your results, would have matched my rear, which has the pattern you like, if I had ordered a 3.50 instead of the 3.25". My front Avon doesn't look like any of the above - it's more of a rib pattern. If you don't like the rear, but you do like the front, you had better see if you can find out if there is a 16" Avon with the pattern you like - have you ever seen one, or can you find one on the net?
By the way, though, sharp lookin' tank; fits perfect. Frame reflects "I'm all about looks", too; markedly different than when you got it...
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I'm going to use dual discs brakes up front. I got a dual disc front end from an xs1100 (and a bottle of scotch) from Paul in exchange for buying the whole bike for him while he was out of town and then hauling it to his place (with Russell). The things we do for buddies.
I mocked up the dual disc brakes with the xs1100 wheel (popped right in). Looks beefier than a single and with mags thats good eye candy so I'm going for it.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14028_zpsa131069b.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14028_zpsa131069b.jpg.html)
This is the left side which is not stock on the xs650.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14027_zps9e2ff4bd.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14027_zps9e2ff4bd.jpg.html)
I will get rid of the blue paint on the lower legs, and for the regulars on the forum, I want to strip the paint off the calipers also.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I got some good work done on the weekend. Fabbed in the rear fender.
I had a chrome fender brace kicking around. Although they are sold by many chopper part suppliers, the geometry is just not right. I used one on my xs650 flat tracker and it had to be cut and re-welded. Same with this one. The photo shows a piece of the 6" flat fender. You can see how it will not sit properly on this fender brace.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14032_zpsaf7443ca.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14032_zpsaf7443ca.jpg.html)
Chop it baby. I bent and welded on a piece better formed for the fender which also gave me some more clearance. I welded it in place, and then cut out the old piece, welded, grinded, smoked and drank, stared and grinded some more.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14034_zps223cb4d5.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14034_zps223cb4d5.jpg.html)
Latest mock up.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/03Mar14039_zpsf3fcfaf6.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/03Mar14039_zpsf3fcfaf6.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looking good Dennis! Would have thought your mock-up engine would be empty by now. CHEERS.
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Looking good Denis! Cant wait to hook up for a ride.
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This bike is going to have an electric start. I need a big battery. I don't like the look of them mounted on the lower frame rails. I decided to have the battery brazenly exposed in a prominent position. It also will not be symetrically mounted; it is about an inch to the right.
I have mounted two (much smaller) batteries in other bikes just behind carbs. The first thing was to make the mount on the back bone. The welded on bungs offset the box to the right.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14002_zps4b10c5ab.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14002_zps4b10c5ab.jpg.html)
The purchased the battery box from Bung King. It was designed to be mounted on top of something like the lower frame rails. The first thing I had to fabricate was a brace that would both bolt to the frame mount, but also be strong enough to hold the battery as the bike slams around PG potholes with no suspension.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14003_zps03a92926.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14003_zps03a92926.jpg.html)
And mounted.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14004_zps0992e62e.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14004_zps0992e62e.jpg.html)
The starter solenoid and voltage reg/rec fit underneath.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14007_zps91949933.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14007_zps91949933.jpg.html)
Plenty of room for brake parts.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14008_zpse393e9ec.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14008_zpse393e9ec.jpg.html)
Gas tank fitted. Bungs welded in so I can use these small Allen cap screws.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14012_zpsff5b897f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14012_zpsff5b897f.jpg.html)
All holes are drilled and the fender is cut to shape, so I dropped them off with Stuntman Foobar. I told him no rush, I have plenty left to do.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14013_zpscf87646f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14013_zpscf87646f.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looking good Dennis, pleasure to watch the transformation from what I first saw. Can't wait to see it finished and hear it run.
Later, Bob
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Denis, once I get the brit stuff completed, My next build is a 650 similar to yours. I cant wait to see yours and chat about it. Did you make a jig for your hardtail? Or did you free hand it?
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Denis, once I get the brit stuff completed, My next build is a 650 similar to yours. I cant wait to see yours and chat about it. Did you make a jig for your hardtail? Or did you free hand it?
I used a jig. I made it much better this time so that I could re-use it on other xs650s since the Nezumi Boyz (previously referred to as the Chopper Boyz) all seem to have their hands on xs650s. On page one of this thread there are some photos of the jig I used.
Here are a couple of photos of my nephew, Emery working on his current XS650. Check out the swoopy curves. I now have a tubing roller in my arsenal as well as my JD Squared tubing bender.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14005_zps02d11719.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14005_zps02d11719.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Apr14009_zps700319d0.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Apr14009_zps700319d0.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looks like when the time comes, I may have to come out for a weekend build:) do some frame work and drink some beers!
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Looks like when the time comes, I may have to come out for a weekend build:) do some frame work and drink some beers!
That's what been going on for the last few weeks. Once they start riding I'll be put out to pasture again.
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I have not posted pics in awhile despite actually having done a lot of work.
The front brake lines are put together from Russell (not our Russell) bits. They are sold by quite a few aftermarket vendors. Their standard is AN3. The lines and fittings all just fit together so there are lots of possibilities. I made this bracket to hold my manifold (1 into 2) and headlight. I've rounded it off since the fitment.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12001_zps261d3c98.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12001_zps261d3c98.jpg.html)
And on the bike.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12002_zps4c496bcb.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12002_zps4c496bcb.jpg.html)
The rear brake was very finicky, but works like a charm. What is hard to see is the top of the lever attached to the brake switch (not the brake pedal) is actually 2 pieces screwed together. It had to be built this way, because if I simply welded it, I would have to remove the entire battery box to pull it out ... not that I plan on doing that often.
The brake lever is all 5/8th rod; bent cut and welded. Only the female part at one end and the stock pedal at the other are from the original. Foot pegs are Harley passenger pegs.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12003_zpsc83003a6.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12003_zpsc83003a6.jpg.html)
I moved onto the engine. XS650s have an antiquated charging system. They use an electromagnet alternator. The voltage is regulated by how much current goes to the electromagnet. More current to the electromaget makes it stronger which then produces more current in the main system. Modern 3 phase alternators use fixed magnets where the alternator just pumps out as much current as it can, and the (easily identified) finned regulator/rectifier dumps the excess current as heat. Since modern reg/rectifiers have worked well for 30 years, it was about time that the aftermarket came up with a retrofit for the XS650. I installed one. It should look familiar 'cause your bike probably has something like this.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12004_zps472f989f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12004_zps472f989f.jpg.html)
I went to assemble the motor. Every part was measured months ago. I went to intall the rings. I had assumed the top two were equal thickness, and the grooves were equal sizes. Wrong. I put the small one in the slightly bigger groove, and tried to push what turned out to be a slightly thicker one in a slightly narrower groove. I broke the ring and scored up the grooves in the process. A panic on-line order has pistons and rings coming by next week. Next time I'll install the rings on the pistons before I put them on the rods. And I'll take some more time and caution. This error cost me about $160.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12005_zpsb8ec6b5d.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12005_zpsb8ec6b5d.jpg.html)
Since the engine is shelved for at least a week, I started the finish welding on the frame. Some things were too hard to get at during the mock up so they need to be welded in now. I hope thats a bad photo and not welding smoke in the picture.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04May12007_zps89cd70ca.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04May12007_zps89cd70ca.jpg.html)
Stuntman Fubar has painted my tank and fender (semi gloss black), and Cam McLoad has them for pinstriping. Motor mounts and odds 'n sods are getting powder coated, but the frame will just be spray bombed. I like bondo, cheap high build primer, and I never want to commit to a first build.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I picked up my parts from the powder coaters. Beautiful job by RCJ. I also got my pistons and rings from XS650Direct so the weekend will be devoted to getting the frame finished. I'll try to post some updated pictures if I make progress this weekend.
I won't start the countdown to the Show 'n Shine until June. For those who followed the near miss with my GS650 mono shock conversion cafe racer a couple of years ago, I hope to create as much drama, but have a happy ending ... and not fall asleep during the Show 'n Shine.
Peace & Grease
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There was lots of sun ... too much, and wind last weekend, so I got my frame painted:
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14001_zpsb4061d0d.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14001_zpsb4061d0d.jpg.html)
On Tuesday (Club Night) I arrived late for the meeting. Charlie and Russell were still in the parking lot and agreed to come over and help lift the engine into the frame. Ted offered his comments on my new, state of the art, charging and ignition systems as well as comments on my abbreviated wiring diagram.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14002_zps82db71b1.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14002_zps82db71b1.jpg.html)
Later, I was doing some final assembly; the oil feed tube. The top is held in place with banjo bolts. I have a new, reasonable quality torqure wrench whcih I was using. The new, aftermarket, bango bolt sheered before the torque spec .. like way before.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14003_zps31a900bc.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14003_zps31a900bc.jpg.html)
I was able to back it out with an Easy Out just held between my fingers. I cleaned up the old ones and used them instead.
I purchased several specialized XS650 parts from XS650Direct which were defective; largely for the same reason. They all had cheap plated type finish, which interfere with the smooth operation of the threads. The Banjo bolts were just plain too soft steel. I intend to make the seller aware of these crappy parts ... and seek a refund.
Lots to do before the Show"Shine, and I will not pull an all nighter. If I make it I make it. If I don't I don"t.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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I want to test my starter with an external battery. I've tested the relay solenoid and it clicks nicely.
I have the clutch out right now. The top end is buttoned up but the spark plugs are out. The rear wheel and chain are not on yet. I am thinking a quick touch with jumper cables would confirm whether my starter motor will work or not.
Am I overlooking a potential disaster?
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Candice was out at my work today and said she thought you could get it all back together in time. Good to know you have someone at home rooting for you!
Can't wait to see it all together (show and shine or not)
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Did I mention my wife was away again? It's not often I get to use the kitchen sink for my projects.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14005_zps7a96684f.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14005_zps7a96684f.jpg.html)
Turned out shiny.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14008_zps02e2689b.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14008_zps02e2689b.jpg.html)
Its much easier to wire stuff like this with the wheel and fender off.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14007_zpse4f83d2c.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14007_zpse4f83d2c.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Its 1:30 Saturday afternoon. Still lots to do.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun14009_zps9200bbc1.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun14009_zps9200bbc1.jpg.html)
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Looked great at the show and shine.
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I made my goal ... sort of. The Smithers XS650 Bobber had to be carried down in the back of my truck. It looks pretty, but doesn't run yet.
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun15004_zps24e4be4d.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun15004_zps24e4be4d.jpg.html)
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd433/smith5304/04Jun15005_zps3943a026.jpg) (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/smith5304/media/04Jun15005_zps3943a026.jpg.html)
At 12:30 Saturday night, I put down my tools, cracked a beer and was bemoaning there was no way I would even be able to roll it to the show. My wife arrived about the same time having driven up from Vancouver. She saw I was bummed and said, "I'm too wound up from driving and won't be able to sleep right away anyways. I'll change into my work clothes and lets tart it up for the show." She polished stuff and helped me assembled enough so it looked like a finished motorcyle. We finishd around 4:00 Sunday a.m.
I need to finish the wiring, plumb the gas tank, and install the clutch. Then there will be the inevitable bugs to work out.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Close but no cigar ... yet.
Wiring is done and works great.
Mike Rommel came by just when I needed a second set of hands for timing the ignition. Its bang on.
Rob and Lauri both showed just when I need two extra sets of hands for bleeding the dual disc brakes (each manning a bleed screw and turning them "open" and "close" as needed.
Clutch in and appears to work great.
Engine starts but only runs strong on one cylinder. Paul came by and helped diagnose it but all we've done is narrow the problem and eliminate possibilities. It is not spark (switched leads from coil and plugs and still only one side; both plugs fire at same time so this was an easy test).
It is not compression. Easily pumps up to over 150 lbs with three kicks.
Carb. Checked float levels the proper way. We carefully lowered the full float bowls off each carb. Nice and full but most important, the same.
My next plan is to go through the left carb. It is brand new. I have read online that you should always thoroughly clean even a brand new carb, and I did not. These have been messed with by the seller who put in different jets. I will have to have a look and see if they left a pair of forceps in there.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Did you bench sync the carbs?
I'm probably not the only one with a carb sync tool, but I just picked one up this winter and would be happy to get a little time in on it as my motor is not back together yet. Let me know if you want a hand with that.
Bike's looking really good btw.
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You know you could just call me..CHEERS.
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Bad spark plug? Unlikely but known to happen.
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An advantage of a vertical twin with ignition that fires both plugs at the same time is easy diagnosis. Paul and I switched both the leads and the plugs and still the left side would not fire.
Guy came by last night and we switched the carbs. Still not firing. That left only something in the cylinder. Paul and I confirmed that I had good compression. Guy suggested it could only be the valve adjustment. I assured him I had done it correctly when assembling the engine, but all of the above tests left nothing else.
I let the engine cool down and re-checked the valves. The left inlet was way too tight. At 11:30 I had back together and gave a quick blip of the electric starter and it started right up and purred like a kitten. It did let go a pretty big Bang when all the un burnt gas in the exhaust went off.
I just have to install the gas tank and fuel lines, and check for all the un-tightened fasteners. I have a plate and valid insurance (since last Friday). I may even get out for ride night tonight.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Good to hear.
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Yay, pay no attention to the rain, it's gonna blow over.
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Saga continues.
In preparation for Ride Night, and having experienced about 3 seconds of the bike running perfect at 11:30 the night before, I plumbed up the tank and tightened all the loose bits. Fired her up and ... back to one cylinder.
I limped down to the Dub and met the group. Consensus was that if a little loosening of the valves made it run (even for only a few seconds), loosen some more and see if it helps. I loosened only the left intake. I loosened it .05 mm looser than the loosest factory spec for an exhaust valve (this is an inlet valve) so it would be nice 'n sloppy. Still not working.
I am going to put the adjustment back to where it should be, .1 mm. I am going to re-do the previous diagnostic tests; including switching the carbs again. I may even see if a set of stock carbs I have fit in the new rubber manifolds and try them.
I stared at the bike for an hour just trying to think of something I missed. I am really stumped. One observation I made which may be a factor is the spark does not seem to be the nice bright blue "snap" that one wants when testing for spark. There is definitely spark in both cylinders, and it is enough to light up the right side, but maybe I just need a bit more zap. I don't want to chase good money after bad, but the only thing not new in the entire electrical system are the coils and wires. I can get a new hotter coil and new wires.
Other than the above, I am at a loss.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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It was sugested above, but try buying brand new plugs (even if you have new plugs ). Its a long shot but a cheap 15$ fix if it works. Plugs coluld have just rolled out of the factory not quite right. Ive only had it once but was hell figuring it out. Plugs out of cylender would give spark, then put them in and they wouldnt. Replaced them after a small fortune of other crap and she ran like a dream. It was on my old xs400 i think. Worth a shot anyways
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I'd definitely want to try a set of good used coils that someone else either has kicking around or, preferably, off a running bike, not just buy a new set without a definite diagnosis. Would also want to try another complete set of running carbs; new doesn't mean it ain't broke. And the fact that someone has had their grubbies in that 'new' carb doesn't bode well.
I'd start with setting the valve lash back to what it should normally be, test ride to be sure, move on with troubleshooting.
Well known but oft not followed advice: Only change one thing at a time.
Keep us posted on the progress.
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Q-Ball re: spark plugs. I have tried new and new again. However, I did read on-line that the next hotter plug is recommended by Pamco Pete, the maker of the electronic ignition.
Stikman: I will probably try my extra set of stock carbs if they fit the manifolds. The XS650s had two different sizes over the years, and the set I have are the smaller ones used during the last few years. I think my manifolds are for the larger ones. I am not going to change the manifolds again. Done it twice, after I could not get the new ones tight with the cheapo "factory" clamps. I bought some better quality line clamps and they work great.
I can't just plug in a different coil. When I wired the bike, I did not use snap in, snap out connectors. I would have to cut and reconnect the wiring.
I will likely order up the new hotter coil in any event; simply because the one I have in it came with the bike, is 33 years old, and is the only used part in my entire electrical system.
Peace & Grease, Dennis
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Ill run out to the shop here denis and see what i have, but i had a xs given to me last year. Call my cell today (250)615-7789 im in town lat tonight so just call any time. We will see if i can supply what you need for time being
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I'm pretty sure the problem is solved. After much farting around and replacing the coil, still no firing on the left cylinder.
I joined up with the Club at the BX Pub on Tuesday and relayed all of the latest saga. With so much knowledge in one place, the general consensus was timing. "But it can't be" says me. "Its a brand new electronic ignition timed with a timing light."
While most present will want to take credit, it was Hans who had the Eureka moment, and figured the magnets in the new electronic ignition system must be in the wrong position. Back at the garage with a case of beer and helpful friends, one of the two magnets was drilled out and moved to a different position. After re-installing, the bike fired up and the left side worked.
Not quite the end of the story. I followed up with an email discussion to Pamco Pete, the manufacturer. He is great to deal with and answered my email to him within an hour. The short version; the rotor is defective. It is supposed to have four magnets 90 degrees apart. There are four holes, but there were only two magnets. They are supposed to be north - south - north - south. 90 degrees of dwell, spark fires, 90 degrees nothing, 90 degrees of dwell, spark fires, 90 degrees of nothing .... repeat.
Pamco Pete has sent me a new (and improved) rotor. Dwell is limited to 60 degrees to keep the coil from over charging.
In his last email he figured my bike should not be running the way it is set up now. Who knew? In any event, I have the Ebay Bobber with a new electronic ignition and coils to install while waiting for my replacement rotor from Pamco Pete.
Peace & points, Dennis
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That's great news. Who would have thought that the electronic ignition was at fault. Too bad we could not have figured that out earlier as that would have saved you a lot of time and frustration.